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View Full Version : Batman: Arkham Asylum - Does this help Tomb Raider?



Jonesy2
31st Aug 2009, 13:05
Not sure how many of you here would even be interested in a game like Arkham Asylum, but it has gotten great reviews, and having played the game, I can say they definitely paid attention to detail. I personally find it a very immersive experience.

If Arkham Asylum becomes successful for Eidos, does that in any way translate into anything good for Tomb Raider? Such as more money and resources put into the next Tomb Raider game?

And does the format of Arkham Asylum give us any hint of what to expect for Lara? I notice that Arkham takes place entirely on an island, for example. For myself, I like the way you can play Arkham without long load times or specific "levels," and it might be fun for Lara to explore some really large tombs in the same way.

Jurre
31st Aug 2009, 13:21
If Arkham Asylum becomes successful for Eidos, does that in any way translate into anything good for Tomb Raider? Such as more money and resources put into the next Tomb Raider game?

I doubt it, Conan was also a succes but it didn't change anything in the situation that Eidos was in at the time. I don't think a single game could bail the company out of their financial troubles. But don't take my word for it, I'm a gamer, not a stock investor...

Rocksteady looks to be a very competent studio though,... if Crystal D ever gets tired of this crap they might take over the tr franchise...

tombraidergal
31st Aug 2009, 14:25
Hey.... I played xblades demo a while ago and you can't complain tr levels are short and just full of enemies and no puzzle solving because that's exactly what xblades is like... Check of the demo for yourself! :p

Edit: that's kind of off topic isn't it? Anyway, I don't think it'll make that much a difference, square Enix is a big company right? They own eidos, so maybe they'll have a part in offering money?

jayjay119
31st Aug 2009, 17:26
Well, I dunno whether you would class this a good but, in an interview wit the CEO of Eidos they said that when looking at the next TR they need to pull it apart, see what works what doesn't and choose the best bits when putting it together for a revamp like they have with Arkham Asylum so I think its always been a big influence on TR success or not!

Jonesy2
31st Aug 2009, 23:22
There are some aspects that could well carry over. Batman does (a little bit) of platforming. He certainly uses his grapple gun a lot. There a lots of riddles and puzzles in the game that I think would work well adapted to a Tomb Raider like setting -- I particularly like that by finding a particular set of clues, you get a little narrated story.

But what holds Arkham all together is the looming sense of crisis. Not sure Tomb Raider could pull something like that off as well -- Lara doesn't have a nemesis the way Batman has Joker.

jayjay119
31st Aug 2009, 23:47
There are some aspects that could well carry over. Batman does (a little bit) of platforming. He certainly uses his grapple gun a lot. There a lots of riddles and puzzles in the game that I think would work well adapted to a Tomb Raider like setting -- I particularly like that by finding a particular set of clues, you get a little narrated story.

But what holds Arkham all together is the looming sense of crisis. Not sure Tomb Raider could pull something like that off as well -- Lara doesn't have a nemesis the way Batman has Joker.

I think you will find she does, Natla anyone. I know she has only become a nemesis of late and the only reason that stops her from becoming one is that the fans don't want her to be. I think TR can pull of a sense of impending doom, the first 5 games all did it quite well I think just in a different way. In a sense the artifacts themselves are Lara's continuous nemesis. They all seemed to have brought something world threatening to the table... the most noteworthy ones are probably TR1 and TR4 though, particularly the latter!

The thing is Batman follows different rules to TR due to its original format, comics. In comics its usual for the protagonist to have a recurring antagonist and that has carried over into other mediums. Lara started in games which favour variety really and stop her from having a main human villain constantly. Although if dangerous artifacts can fill that space then why not?

Pulse
1st Sep 2009, 00:03
What CD could learn from other games:

Graphics don't really matter, but people will flock to the better looking ones no matter what. Improve these, look at Uncharted for inspiration, but make the hair moveable. Clay hair bugs me.

TR needs an overhaul on the combat system. That doesn't translate to bow and arrow, got it? Let's add a cover system for starters.

Find someway to incorperate multiplayer (online and offline) somehow. Core obsessed fans will hate you, but the gaming world will be very intrigued.

Boss fights are fun!

The games should be longer, much, much longer. how about we aim for 20+, okay?

If you're going to release a game on the Wii and PS2, don't release a watered down unenjoyable game. How about an entirely different adventure.

hp4ever1
1st Sep 2009, 01:49
I totally want to get Arkham Asylum but they needa take a page outta TR book here. I mean, come on? Only 3 platforms???? I have Underworld for my PC, PS2, and DS. lol the Joker shuld be in the next TR game lol

josh1122
1st Sep 2009, 07:21
What CD could learn from other games:

Graphics don't really matter, but people will flock to the better looking ones no matter what. Improve these, look at Uncharted for inspiration, but make the hair moveable. Clay hair bugs me.

TR needs an overhaul on the combat system. That doesn't translate to bow and arrow, got it? Let's add a cover system for starters.

Find someway to incorperate multiplayer (online and offline) somehow. Core obsessed fans will hate you, but the gaming world will be very intrigued.

Boss fights are fun!

The games should be longer, much, much longer. how about we aim for 20+, okay?

If you're going to release a game on the Wii and PS2, don't release a watered down unenjoyable game. How about an entirely different adventure.



''Graphics don't really matter, but people will flock to the better looking ones no matter what. Improve these, look at Uncharted for inspiration, but make the hair moveable. Clay hair bugs me.''

Uncharted didn't really have ultra amazing graphics. I had the game for awhile(gladly got rid of it). People need to get off the Uncharted high horse,certain parts of the game, I agree it was perdy, but thats all it offered. The moveable hair thing...come on....really?, I mean hair rolling and flying around is fine but is that really that big of deal?..

''TR needs an overhaul on the combat system. That doesn't translate to bow and arrow, got it? Let's add a cover system for starters.''

I agree, something needs to be done with the combat,not a total complete revamp of it but it needs to be structured better than what it has been.


''Find someway to incorperate multiplayer (online and offline) somehow. Core obsessed fans will hate you, but the gaming world will be very intrigued.''

I'm iffy about multiplayer, I think the only effective multiplayer would be to have a co-op multiplayer, join a game and raid a tomb, go on some sort of adventure etc whatever, I despise the idea of a death match multiplayer. Also about the Core obsessed fans(more than half the fans that are still around), they'll cry no matter WHAT CD does, thats just a given, Its like they're paid to do so (*waits for backlash from them*)


''The games should be longer, much, much longer. how about we aim for 20+, okay?

If you're going to release a game on the Wii and PS2, don't release a watered down unenjoyable game. How about an entirely different adventure''

For one thing, asking for 20+ hrs for a game thats NOT in the RPG genre is asking for the impossible. No game like Tomb Raider or any game thats involved in the 3PS,FPS genres are going to have any game play longer. Underworld if you just went and beat the game straight through, the roughly average was what? 8hrs or so tops. Which is exactly the same time frame ALL 3PS/FPS can be beaten in. So again,everyone that is constantly nagging and complaining about short game time..either they do not play very many games or are hopeless dreamers.

I also hope CD completely ditch development for the Wii and PS2. I feel it would be best to only concentrate on 360,PS3 and PC. I feel that the more platforms they have to worry about, the less complete either glitch wise or bug wise their games will be. Cutting down production on how many platforms they have to do will greatly help this out in my opinion.

jayjay119
1st Sep 2009, 16:42
What CD could learn from other games:

Graphics don't really matter, but people will flock to the better looking ones no matter what. Improve these, look at Uncharted for inspiration, but make the hair moveable. Clay hair bugs me.

TR needs an overhaul on the combat system. That doesn't translate to bow and arrow, got it? Let's add a cover system for starters.

Find someway to incorperate multiplayer (online and offline) somehow. Core obsessed fans will hate you, but the gaming world will be very intrigued.

Boss fights are fun!

The games should be longer, much, much longer. how about we aim for 20+, okay?

If you're going to release a game on the Wii and PS2, don't release a watered down unenjoyable game. How about an entirely different adventure.

Graphics don't really matter, but people will flock to the better looking ones no matter what. Improve these, look at Uncharted for inspiration, but make the hair moveable. Clay hair bugs me.


Forgive me for saying but this comment seems to contradict itself. Graphics are important in todays market, any game that isn't visually as stunning as others on the market will be damned from the start. That's not the developers' fault thats the markets fault. I agree with Josh about UDF's graphics being over hyped though, there are games with much better graphics in my opinion.

TR needs an overhaul on the combat system. That doesn't translate to bow and arrow, got it? Let's add a cover system for starters.
Agreed!

Find someway to incorperate multiplayer (online and offline) somehow. Core obsessed fans will hate you, but the gaming world will be very intrigued.


I think this could be a good place to acceptably introduce the 'barbie Lara' section of TR, instead of having multiple characters it could be a 'create your own Lara' type thing to customise for the multiplayer section. So everyone has a different playable character, yet they're all still Lara and the casuals get the keep the costume elements.

Boss fights are fun!

Yes they are, but all things in moderation, a mid game boss, sub boss and end of game boss is generally the best way to go. AOD did this really well. Plus there needs to be a healthy middle ground between beating bosses with combat and puzzle solving, not just one or the other. The james rutland fight in Ghana was a good example of this for me.

The games should be longer, much, much longer. how about we aim for 20+, okay?

Like Josh said only RPGs have such long gameplay these days, CD could try aiming for such long gameplay but areas may get repetitive and boring which is worse than shorter gameplay length, I think 13-15 hours is a good time to aim for.

Jurre
1st Sep 2009, 17:26
I'm playing Batman AA right now, I gotta say its well made. Real quality work. However, since all the goons are trying to murder me its kinda unsatisfying that I am only able to knock them uncounsious, no matter how spectacular. Its of course because Batman doesn't kill, well alright but I still feel unsatisfied. It makes me wanna play Heavenly Sword again and slaugther 800 people in one minute.
No seriously, its not that bad but it shows they were willing to sacrifice gameplay for nostalgia, just like Crystal D...

Jonesy2
1st Sep 2009, 20:46
Well, that's the fault of the franchise. Batman just doesn't kill, period. It goes against his entire character and reason for being. If they'd changed that in the game it wouldn't have been a real "Batman" game, and I think Arkham is arguably the best Batman game that's ever been made. They even hired people like Paul Dini, who worked on the old animated series and also writes for the comic books, to make sure they got the right "vibe".

Maybe Marvel should get around to making a Punisher game where you can just waste the bad guys right and left. But now they're owned by Disney, so who knows if that would ever happen.

Jurre
1st Sep 2009, 21:52
If they'd changed that in the game it wouldn't have been a real "Batman" game
I never read a Batman comic so I have to ask you this: is it real Batmanish for the Joker to exterminate dozens of people? In this case the Asylum staff?
You see: if Joker had just put them prisoner or sedated them then things would be in balance again...

josh1122
1st Sep 2009, 22:01
its not that bad but it shows they were willing to sacrifice gameplay for nostalgia, just like Crystal D...

http://www.independent.ie/multimedia/archive/00180/violin_180751t.jpg

Jurre
1st Sep 2009, 22:05
You really think you're funny don't you??

josh1122
1st Sep 2009, 22:10
I think Batman AA is a pretty decent game for the most part. Definitely the best Batman based game,but then again that's not saying a whole lot because most of the batman games in general have been nothing but abysmal.

At times this game does seem rather repetitive at certain points,but if your able to endure some of the repetitive parts of the game and push on, it becomes a pretty decent and enjoyable game. I'd rate it 7 out of 10 personally

I don't see how this would help Tomb Raider though, I might be the only one but I don't see how it could or even does

Jonesy2
1st Sep 2009, 22:19
I never read a Batman comic so I have to ask you this: is it real Batmanish for the Joker to exterminate dozens of people? In this case the Asylum staff?
You see: if Joker had just put them prisoner or sedated them then things would be in balance again...

In the "modern" comics era it certainly is common for the Joker to murder people by the dozens. That of course raises the question, wouldn't it be better for Batman just to kill the Joker, and prevent him from killing again? The question has been repeatedly addressed in the comics as a moral conundrum for Batman -- you got to see some of that in The Dark Knight, if you happened to watch that movie.

The reason Batman never kills the Joker is because...well, I'd say more but the issue is addressed in the Arkham game itself (though not in a heavy handed way) and I don't want to spoil the story, because I thought they went about it in a clever way, especially for a videogame.

Pulse
1st Sep 2009, 22:24
Forgive me for saying but this comment seems to contradict itself. Graphics are important in todays market, any game that isn't visually as stunning as others on the market will be damned from the start. That's not the developers' fault thats the markets fault. I agree with Josh about UDF's graphics being over hyped though, there are games with much better graphics in my opinion.



I was only trying to say that graphics really aren't important to a game, IMO at least, but these days unless you have stunning graphics no one will pay that much attention to your game.

Well that's only one game. The graphics in Uncharted are pretty good anyway, but the hair in it is so damn annoying! It stays in one position the entire time! Maybe it's changed, i'm not that interested in U2 to find out.

There are a ton of games with amazing top notch graphics. Sadly TR isn't on that list, which means it's not going to get as much coverage :(

josh1122
1st Sep 2009, 22:34
There are a ton of games with amazing top notch graphics. Sadly TR isn't on that list, which means it's not going to get as much coverage :(

Underworlds graphics were better than ALOT of games that were out at its timeframe. But then KillZone 2 came out and kicked both Underworld and Mr Drake to the ground and curb stomped them into mush.

But I'm one of the people that always says, graphics does not mean a better game, perfect examples of course, Uncharted and Kill Zone 2. Uncharted had some nice pretty graphics,but thats all it had, that and repetitiveness and boring. In KillZone 2's case, the game had super amazing graphics(I had it for awhile),but then again thats ALL it had going for it. It was just your same ol FPS with nothing really new or different that you couldn't find in any other FPS.

I've personally preferred games like Lost Wind and NyxQuest,Wii Ware games over PS3/360 games because both those have good game play. Same for the XBLA title, Shadow Complex, that game is better than most of your regular retail games for 360 and the PS3. I find these titles better than big retail releases because of the game play factor.

Better game play is better than amazing graphics,however,even I know I'm in the minority on that stance

Jurre
1st Sep 2009, 22:35
In the "modern" comics era it certainly is common for the Joker to murder people by the dozens. That of course raises the question, wouldn't it be better for Batman just to kill the Joker, and prevent him from killing again? The question has been repeatedly addressed in the comics as a moral conundrum for Batman -- you got to see some of that in The Dark Knight, if you happened to watch that movie.Yes I did. What surprised me though in AA was that the Joker wanted to kill Batman. In DK I thought he never wanted wanted him dead to keep playing his games.
Anyway, whatever the reason in the Batmanworld: of course Joker can't be killed off or they would lose one of the most popular villains on earth...


The reason Batman never kills the Joker is because...well, I'd say more but the issue is addressed in the Arkham game itself (though not in a heavy handed way) and I don't want to spoil the story, because I thought they went about it in a clever way, especially for a videogame. I'll see it for myself then... My guess is it has something to do with his parents...

al-x
27th Sep 2009, 23:09
Hello:

I am playing it now and there is room for exploration of the asylum. TR could learn a little
from it. I just hope there is no Games for Windows Live on the next TR.


Al...