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View Full Version : Your TR9 Expectations? Something new or back to the roots?



kiss-bite
25th Aug 2009, 07:55
My heart craves for TR to retain or should I say return to offering a real challenge again. Placing the player in a world that requires real thought. A digital world that we can actually be LOST in again that gives a sense of achievement because you've conquered the creators devious labyrinth filled with hazards. That can be overcome with a bit of brain activity.

I know this desire for a challenge again is a bit of self torture because like many have already said, games have changed. They are more like beautiful eye candy that offers a two day, at best, easy ride with the exception to a few. There is nothing wrong with this because a game is meant to be fun after all.

However, TR wasn't just an adventure game it was also a puzzle, mystery game. The player had to overcome the environment to succeed. The new games seem more like a sign posted obvious dot to dot theme park nature trails. When it should feel like being lost in the middle of nowhere with dangers all around. I think it's absurdly ironic that the player is offered so much assistance in the new games when It's almost impossible to get lost in the location or what to do next.:confused:

I guess I'm a traditionalist as I prefer on many different levels Cores magic & vision. Saying that I can't honestly say that I didn't enjoy CD makeover Tomb Raider games, even Legend. I thought all three games were a lot of fun, quick & easy but exciting. However, in the back of my head whilst playing the new CD adventures. I'm always imagining that I'm playing a "kids edition TR" or I'm imagining all the things I would change to make it more like the TR that I recognise.

I like to think of my self as an open minded person so I'll give things the benefit of the doubt. The thought of a free-roaming island in a TR game is something I find exciting. It conjures up so many ideas & visions in my my mind that I feel could be really great. Saying that, I've been here before. Whilst my heart desires a new TR game that is a hybrid, taking the best ingredients from Core & CD then implementing them in one game. My head tells me not to have too much expectation. :(

My heart can't help but torture itself by yearning for that classic TR magic again. whilst my head tells me it will never return & to just accept & enjoy the new Tomb Raider games for what they are, simple fun. Tomb Raider is more & more unrecognisable to me today to what it was to me during the Core period. Even though I feel like I'm playing an impersonator at times with CD contributions to a series that made me become a gamer. CD breed of tomb raiding can still excite me so I still watch this space. This time round though I'll let my head rule over my hearts desire.:)

Would you like the next TR game to be something completely new or would you like to see it return more to it's roots? After the last three CD TR games what are your expectations for the TR9?:wave:

Max 28
25th Aug 2009, 09:00
Great opening kiss-bite. I too agree with much of what you have said. So I'll answer the question.

I think it is a good idea to re-vamp the TR series. At first it felt too soon after the CD changes but we need to get it right so they can make lots more games using the correct equation. Many of us complain about what's wrong with teh CD trio so restarting the stroy and the character will work well I think. But along with resart it's still keeping in the great aspects of the games, I think CD sound like they are on the right track to delivering us a new game, fixing the flaws and returning to the sucesses. The points that made Core's TR so classic, so epic, with the innovative gameplay, immersive environments an that feeling of a real challenge where you are worried for Lara's life. Also keeping the improvements CD made, and how thry brought TR into they current market succesfully.

Have to go.

jayjay119
25th Aug 2009, 12:03
I also agree with what you said Kiss-bite and I feel a lot of others here will also. Personally whilst CD's games have been fun they really have been lacking that classic TR feel, I think TRU went the right way about putting that right with all the feedback they received from TRA, but it was only really Thailand and Mexico that had a bit of that TR theme.

I feel you a right Kiss-bite, TR was not just about exploration, but about puzzle solving and those things have taken a back seat in previous games because of CD's unfortunate insistance on linearity. Again TRU made improvements but not many, the puzzles overall felt bland compared to the old ones where the whole levels seemed to be a puzzle.

I feel free roam is the right way to go with TR but it needs some structure, TR4 started ion free roaming I feel but it was never expanded in TR5 or AOD. I would like something new in terms of story and control, I feel the player should be more in control of Lara than in the past 3 games to reduce linearity, but a return to the classic roots of TR gameplay just expanded and evolved as it should have been 3 games ago!

Katie_Fleming
25th Aug 2009, 13:13
My heart craves for TR to retain or should I say return to offering a real challenge again.

I guess I'm a traditionalist as I prefer on many different levels Cores magic & vision. Saying that I can't honestly say that I didn't enjoy CD makeover Tomb Raider games, even Legend. I thought all three games were a lot of fun, quick & easy but exciting. However, in the back of my head whilst playing the new CD adventures. I'm always imagining that I'm playing a "kids edition TR" or I'm imagining all the things I would change to make it more like the TR that I recognise.

Whilst my heart desires a new TR game that is a hybrid, taking the best ingredients from Core & CD then implementing them in one game. My head tells me not to have too much expectation. :(

Would you like the next TR game to be something completely new or would you like to see it return more to it's roots? After the last three CD TR games what are your expectations for the TR9?:wave:

I can't agree more with your post, and had troubles narrowing down the quotes I wanted to use! To make my reply as short as possible..


I prefer Core's old levels than CD's any day
Core's levels were much more open and fun to explore. Getting lost IS part of playing!
Changing Lara's biography in Legend, SEVEN games into the series almost lost me as a fan. If they were really set on a new bio they should have made a new game. This really disappointed me and even with Underworld I am struggling to try and enjoy the storyline
Going with my previous point more, I like the fact that CD brought Winston and Zip back, however they are very different from what we knew them to be in the classics, and this was a disappointment as well. Winston used to be hilarious! Overweight! Made noises! Now he's skinny and proper...that's NOT the Winston we used to know, OR the one illustrated in the Official Fact Files. For heaven's sake, play the games Crystal!
I did not enjoy Legend at all. Perhaps it was because I was so upset with the change of biography/crappy controls I just couldn't. AE was a bit of fresh air because it was a remake, so it at least FELT like Tomb Raider. I'm not finished with Underworld yet but the game play is better, I AM enjoying that. Story? Absolutely not. Controls? (I'm on PC) - can't stand them.
It would be wonderful if they implemented a system where you could choose between classic/new controls. Then it would please everyone.
I would love to see a storyline that resembles those of the classics, and bringing back Lara's REAL mansion. There were still a few rooms left unexplored, and even a few renovations here and there would spruce it up. Who didn't totally love the quad course?!


There's more, but I'll leave it with this for now ;) I really believe if CD can marry into the classics and REALLY get to know who Lara is they'll be able to make a true Tomb Raider game.

I have to agree it does feel "kiddish" or "dumbed down" - invisible walls everywhere prevent true exploration, and while the puzzles LOOK better, they're still extremely simple.

CD needs to sit all employees down and play all the classics start-to-finish. Then talk about:


What made this game good?
What could we use from this, and update it for today's games?
What makes Lara, Lara?
What didn't work?
How can we update some of these old concepts into the new games while remaining true to the character?
After coming up with concepts they really need to ask: Does this match the Lara the fans know? Is it still true to the series?

Jurre
25th Aug 2009, 14:05
... and even if they did all of that, it would still not be Tomb Raider, because her shoelaces are black instead of brown. Its not Tomb Raider with black shoelaces!!!

Flintmelody
25th Aug 2009, 14:42
Love all your thoughts on this thread. I definately want TR to go back to it's roots but my expectations is that it won't happen (at least not in the next game).

Core got level design just right and I would love to have more searching and backtracking to find things. I want more levels like the tower room of TRA's St Frances folly. The classic core game atmosphere, music, and level design I would tottaly want to see return. TRU maybe tried to get some Core feel but with not enough pashion that it gave bland environments and puzzles that turned out worse than TRL.

4 phrases for me sum it up

Level design - Want more less linear clever Core type design with the level as a puzzle
Atmosphere - To draw the player in to the environment
Epic Music - Classic TR music thrashes anything recent. It can create panic, tension and can be used brilliantly with combat. CD havn't got this half as good as Nathan and Core
Challenge - A game that has you playing and struggling for days not hours

I prefer Core levels over CD though some like Kazakhstan, Nepal, St Frances Folly felt quite epic and classic. I always like to get lost in levels too. Lara's personality transpant is annoying for me. Biography changes in TRA were bad but the emotional Lara is the thing I really dislike.


CD needs to sit all employees down and play all the classics start-to-finish. Then talk about:
What could we use from this, and update it for today's games?
Absolutely 100% Yes


After coming up with concepts they really need to ask: Does this match the Lara the fans know? Is it still true to the series?

Again massively with you on that

phoenixflames
25th Aug 2009, 16:43
I have to agree with most of yall... I hope the new TR will be as complicated and aggravating as the originals. Getting lost was what made TR such a great experience. Hopefully since Toby Gard is back, we can be immersed within an adventure that can truely stand up to the originals and what made us fall in love with Lara.

josh1122
27th Aug 2009, 01:11
Using pure tradition(COREs ways) will fail miserably.

Not doing anything new(from CDs ways) will fall short

They have to find a mixture of both old and something new to appeal both to new-comers/main stream and keep old fans satisfied as well

CD will never be able to please ''hardcore fans'' simply because we whine too much and yes we do so don't even try to argue that fact. People want PURE copies of the old games, but cant seen to get it through their skulls that it would completely FAIL in this day and age. It aint the 90's anymore.

Yes yes, people are going to flame me(anyone who doesnt bow down to CORE 100% get flamed). But its the truth about what I've said above.

Also like myself and others have said, if you love and ''miss'' the classic feel so much, pop out your Playstation/PC games and go play them, that will give you your fix. It's what I do if feel like ''getting that feeling again''. Not too hard really.

If anyone has noticed they seem to going in the complete opposite direction than what the fans are complaining about wanting,even more so opposite than what we got in TRU

I'm with Kiss Bite on the fact they have to find a way to mix the best of old with the new and not have one stronger than the other in that aspect. A mixture of old style(CORE) with new(CD). But due to fans and the overall dullness OUTSIDER gamers(meaning ones who aren't typical fans of TR). CD won't ever get it right, no matter how much they try.

TRU has sold near 3mil and was deemed a ''failure'' by fans. I think fans have TOO high of expecations for a Tomb Raider game nowadays that its impossible to please any of them.

so my expecations for TR 9? everyone all ready knows them, so no use repeating myself for the 500th time with my displeasure lol

Flintmelody
27th Aug 2009, 14:13
Using pure tradition(COREs ways) will fail miserably.

Not doing anything new(from CDs ways) will fall short

They have to find a mixture of both old and something new to appeal both to new-comers/main stream and keep old fans satisfied as well

CD will never be able to please ''hardcore fans'' simply because we whine too much and yes we do so don't even try to argue that fact.

We do whine a little bit Lol. Going back to 90's in every aspect won't work. Taking the game in to more generic territories won't work either so it's up to CD to get a classic vibe back with the new technology and gameplay styles.



I'm with Kiss Bite on the fact they have to find a way to mix the best of old with the new and not have one stronger than the other in that aspect. A mixture of old style(CORE) with new(CD). But due to fans and the overall dullness OUTSIDER gamers(meaning ones who aren't typical fans of TR). CD won't ever get it right, no matter how much they try.

TRU has sold near 3mil and was deemed a ''failure'' by fans. I think fans have TOO high of expecations for a Tomb Raider game nowadays that its impossible to please any of them.

I agree that CD have to get the best of Core and CD games and combine them. Then we will see what many of us TR fans are hoping for. TRU was a failure in my oppinion. After TRL and TRA were great, TRU was such a boring game for them to come out with. As I have said before random jungles, caves and seas with no real excitement dosn't do it for me. I think fans have realistic expectations of TR but CD still have to do real well to meet them.

Pulse
27th Aug 2009, 22:19
Even though I hate Uncharted, CD need to study that game pretty hard...

jayjay119
27th Aug 2009, 22:20
Even though I hate Uncharted, CD need to study that game pretty hard...

I agree, I think the controls in that game and the combat system should be an inspiration for the next game. Just the system though not the shooter overkill!

josh1122
27th Aug 2009, 23:36
Even though I hate Uncharted, CD need to study that game pretty hard...

I disagree 100%, unless you want a boring third person shooter as it did nothing else, with literally zero platforming.

I also disagree with flint about TRU being a failure(AOD all ready claimed that prize) and that CD should listen to the fans

heres the truth so take it as you will

its not CD thats ''hurting'' the TR franchise, honestly its the fans. The ones who refuse to let nostalgia go and want the same ol damn thing over and over again just because they're afraid of change.

In my opinion its the FANS who hurt this franchise more than the developers do. Sad but true. CD tries something new, fans cry,CD tries catering adding a bit more of OLD TR feel that fans were whining for,fans still cry. Now with TR 9, CD is trying new things and myself and others are still crying.

Need to face facts, we hurt the franchise more than we do help it because like I stated before, we all whine too much about ''its not like this and that''.

This will be replied to with disagreement, but even if you disagree, its the truth.

Error96_
28th Aug 2009, 00:32
I also disagree with flint about TRU being a failure(AOD all ready claimed that prize) and that CD should listen to the fans

In my opinion its the FANS who hurt this franchise more than the developers do. Sad but true. CD tries something new, fans cry,CD tries catering adding a bit more of OLD TR feel that fans were whining for,fans still cry. Now with TR 9, CD is trying new things and myself and others are still crying.

This will be replied to with disagreement, but even if you disagree, its the truth.

I think the TR fans are great. We are always buying the games, discussing them and raving about things we like about them. Sometimes we critise what we don't like but with the aim of making things better in future games.

I don't get where this idea came from that TRU was TR going back to it's roots. I am kind of with Flint that TR is about more epic iconic locations around the world and that on that score TRU's envonments seemed rather average. Not at all like the old games. Same with the Doppleganger story missing the mark a bit.

Maybe we do expect too much. Counting TR like a golden torch and expecting CD to live up to that. After something so great was done 10 years we should expect something now. Some really bold varied and atmospheric environments along with some classic style TR music and decent game length they would be on the right lines. Legend was a great vibrant game so don't get why we ended up with a rather unimpressive sequel.

Gemma_Darkmoon_
28th Aug 2009, 00:54
The island is a very bold idea. Something new and exciting. Whilst TRU maybe have felt a bit been there before this new island is brand new territory. I like that

On the good side the island, creatures and fear factor offer a wonderful oppertunity to get some real atmosphere back in the game. Have your pistols out a be ready for some grusome surprise attacks with a Lara less ready to handle them. Love that alot.

On the bad side the island is confining. Can they make everywhere feel exiting and different when they can put in a military base or city levels. Will things like the bow and arrow be so not TR and bemuse the fans? Can they get the combination of the look of areas and scary creepy music to capture the right atmosphere? It's going to be tough for them.

Legend bought CD a bit of time to build a great way of making TR games. Now is the time CD really have to bring their best. My expectation is this will be on a par with Legend which would be good. Fingers crossed though they will get it just right and it be something amazing.

Jason Miller
28th Aug 2009, 01:22
I disagree 100%, unless you want a boring third person shooter as it did nothing else, with literally zero platforming.

I also disagree with flint about TRU being a failure(AOD all ready claimed that prize) and that CD should listen to the fans

heres the truth so take it as you will

its not CD thats ''hurting'' the TR franchise, honestly its the fans. The ones who refuse to let nostalgia go and want the same ol damn thing over and over again just because they're afraid of change.

In my opinion its the FANS who hurt this franchise more than the developers do. Sad but true. CD tries something new, fans cry,CD tries catering adding a bit more of OLD TR feel that fans were whining for,fans still cry. Now with TR 9, CD is trying new things and myself and others are still crying.

Need to face facts, we hurt the franchise more than we do help it because like I stated before, we all whine too much about ''its not like this and that''.

This will be replied to with disagreement, but even if you disagree, its the truth.

And I thought I was the only one who thought that!! Honestly, I was too scared to post my ideas but hell you just read my mind!!

josh1122
28th Aug 2009, 01:46
And I thought I was the only one who thought that!! Honestly, I was too scared to post my ideas but hell you just read my mind!!

Don't be afraid to tell the truth. It's exactly that, the truth lol.

No need to be scared of internet folk, the only thing they can do is flame you or disagree with you. That's pretty much it lol :D

also @Error

TRU was unimpressive by your standards and others,reviews and sales speak differently, I'll leave it at that. Well unless your refering to PS2/Wii versions then you have a point.

You've proven my point that fans just bicker about this and that and don't want anything new or won't accept anything that isn't a carbon copy of the old CORE games. One example: ''Music/Environments are not like the old games''. Also with the gripes out game play length, this is going to sound rude but please do not take it that way because its not my intention, if the games length is bothering you then it must mean TRU is the only game you've played this current generation because EVERY game(except RPG's) average length is 7-9hrs tops. Every developer alive is guilty of doing this to their games. It will not change anytime soon

Like I said, Fans hurt the franchise more than help it. Whether people choose to agree with me or not. Hopefully we all will learn to be open minded, but its the internet and were fans of something, so thats not happening anytime soon lol

We'll see what CD has in store for us with TR 9 when the time comes for more information,I can all ready predict what will happen though. We'll see,hopefully its something to please the nostalgians(not even a word and it includes myself)

I personally think TR 2 is the best in the series and none of COREs or CD's other games can hold a candle to it. But my loyalty isn't going to make me condemn every other game by CORE or games by CD just becaose of that loyalty/nostalgia either, is my point. Hopefully people can see where I'm coming from

Error96_
28th Aug 2009, 02:55
Honestly, I was too scared to post my ideas but hell you just read my mind!!

Don't be scared to post your thoughts. I post things I know people will disagree with. That's the point and having a debate in which different viewpoints are there is what it's all about


@Error. TRU was unimpressive by your standards and others,reviews and sales speak differently, I'll leave it at that. Well unless your refering to PS2/Wii versions then you have a point.

You've proven my point that fans just bicker about this and that and don't want anything new or won't accept anything that isn't a carbon copy of the old CORE games. One example: ''Music/Environments are not like the old games''. Also with the gripes out game play length, this is going to sound rude but please do not take it that way because its not my intention, if the games length is bothering you then it must mean TRU is the only game you've played this current generation because EVERY game(except RPG's) average length is 7-9hrs tops. Every developer alive is guilty of doing this to their games. It will not change anytime soon

I personally think TR 2 is the best in the series and none of COREs or CD's other games can hold a candle to it. But my loyalty isn't going to make me condemn every other game by CORE or games by CD just becaose of that loyalty/nostalgia either, is my point. Hopefully people can see where I'm coming from

Just like I said above I will say how I feel. What I have said to critise TRU isn't as half as strong as others have. The TRU DLC's are great but I didn't rate the game without them. Whilst I think CD have done well in many aspects I think Music/Environments are aspects where the Core games are far better and CD should attept to improve those.

As for game length. In next gen have played some RPG's, some sporting games and a recent PoP. All took me longer to complete than TR. All of them also had bigger replay value than TRU but few more than TRL/TRA. Maybe games have got shorter. I would still say is dissapointing why CD can't produce games anywhere near as long as Core's no matter of the reason.

The only TR I have condemed is the non-DLC TRU. I am generally very positive in regards to the DLC content, TRL, TRA and all Core games. I therefore don't agree that I condemed every recent TR due to nostalgia. Read many of my other posts and you will see that.

Quite a tough post to do. For the happier thing guess my fav TR. It's TR2 as well. I think it's incredible fun to play, the atmosphere, music, environments are awesome. If just some of the magic of TR2 could be added to CD's games then for me that would be incredible.

As for the next TR, CD are taking some big risks but if they get it right I think it could be a brill TR.

josh1122
28th Aug 2009, 03:56
Don't be scared to post your thoughts. I post things I know people will disagree with. That's the point and having a debate in which different viewpoints are there is what it's all about



.

As for game length. In next gen have played some RPG's, some sporting games and a recent PoP. All took me longer to complete than TR. All of them also had bigger replay value than TRU but few more than TRL/TRA. Maybe games have got shorter. I would still say is dissapointing why CD can't produce games anywhere near as long as Core's no matter of the reason.


The only TR I have condemed is the non-DLC TRU. I am generally very positive in regards to the DLC content, TRL, TRA and all Core games. I therefore don't agree that I condemed every recent TR due to nostalgia. Read many of my other posts and you will see that.

Quite a tough post to do. For the happier thing guess my fav TR. It's TR2 as well. I think it's incredible fun to play, the atmosphere, music, environments are awesome. If just some of the magic of TR2 could be added to CD's games then for me that would be incredible.

As for the next TR, CD are taking some big risks but if they get it right I think it could be a brill TR.

Games cost more to make now a days then they did back then. I think that's why you'll find games are shorter. The argument ''why cant games be longer'' is getting rather repetitive and doesn't make any sense anymore. People are condemning CD for doing something that entire industry itself has been doing for over the past 3 or so years(if you just count this generation),but don't bring up that 90% of the games out there today are just as long if not SHORTER than TRU/TRL/TRA have been.

You also brought up examples which clearly do not make sense. Sports games and RPG's are entirely different genre and sports games do not have any storyline,basically same mind numbing game play as all the other sports games. RPG's need to have en entire storyline fleshed out,hundreds of items,spells,armor,character backgrounds,setting. Frankly RPG's are the hardest to make, so yes those are indeed longer.

Perhaps I should've been more clear with you,ANY game in the Tomb Raider genre or near it be it, third person shooter or even to the FPS game. None are longer than Tomb Raider and if they are, its by one hour or so,thats all. The new PoP you talked about, game was easily beaten faster than the normal person did TRU(8hrs),for most people anyways, mostly because it held your hand like a baby in that game.

You/others just gotta get with the times, complaining about a game being longer isn't going to change anything in this day and age. Everything is all ready set and stone from the beginning and a few of us voicing our displeasure isn't going to change their ways.

I hate easy to beat, 7hr games as well. hardly any are worth buying just for that reason :(

I also think the TRU DLC was crap :(

Also you say your not condemning CD or its games but you are condemning them before they even put out a game, you show proof of that with this quote ''I would still say is dissapointing why CD can't produce games anywhere near as long as Core's no matter of the reason.''

So basically no matter what they do, you all ready have set it in your mind that your disappointed. I find that biased but hey its just me.

I do agree with you on a few things,that CD needs to find a way to use old tricks that were used in the past with their current TR style, find a mixture of both of those together that molds well. But even if they do that, you'll find all us fans still scream blasphemy at them as usual

@Miller

Error is right,no need to be afraid of chatting/disagreeing online. The only thing we'll all agree on is to disagree :lmao:

kiss-bite
28th Aug 2009, 07:37
I personally don't think anyone here is afraid of change, some just don't take too kindly to seeing something they have cherished slowly disappearing into something unrecognisable. The simple truth is that a game that keeps the essence of the core games, TR's roots, but placing it within a contemporary skin is possible I believe.

CD in my opinion haven't done it yet & can they do it? Like I said before I'll still watch this space. Nobody here is naive enough to think that TR doesn't have to evolve but it doesn't need to forget what it originally was either. Do people really want a quick easy short adventure over a challenging, substantial fulfilling adventure? It seems that some do now & CD has the job of either trying to satisfy both audiences or going with one format & alienating the other.

Of course CD always do try to make a successful game & they haven't failed really in terms of sales & reviews. However Tomb Raider was once the top of it's game & I don't feel it is anymore. I'm not pretending it is easy job to develop a game that is the best of it's kind but it would be nice if the next TR aimed for that, incorporating successful elements of both Core & CD games.

Some may think that Core fans don't want change but what that really means is that they don't want the watered down kids edition TR. Some fans have been with TR since the beginning & have remained loyal to the franchise through ups & downs until this very day. This doesn't mean they are old fashioned incapable of accepting change, complainers without reason or are anti CD. They just simple care about TR even at times when nobody else did.

I absolutely adore Core's Tomb Raider games & I enjoyed CD games. I still keep my fingers crossed for the hybrid TR game that offers us a genuine challenging adventure where the player can actually be lost in & has head scratching moments in how to solve something.

I'll keep my fingers crossed that that hard work that CD obviously do put into their TR games pays off this time. Merging the magic, the winning aspects of Core & their own innovations in the series & placing them in a best of it's kind game.:) It's no easy job.:D

jayjay119
28th Aug 2009, 12:01
@ kiss-bite, couldn't have said it myself.

lara-is-so-cool
28th Aug 2009, 13:15
i think they should take a few pages from the game wet.

i was playing the demo and i thought lara should be able to do alot of this stuff.

it would make the combat more intresting but add more puzzles and non linear levels

Flintmelody
28th Aug 2009, 13:19
About the whole length thing. I blame linearity and lack of backtracking for that. CD did some brilliant long levels with TRL Kazakstan, TRA St Frances Folly and TRA Sanctuary of the Scion. I want to see a few more levels like that. TRL/TRA made up for short length with great replayability (time trial etc) but treasure hunt mode was dismal at best.

I think kiss-bite is absolutely spot on with what they said. Don't think I could have said it better.

josh1122
28th Aug 2009, 19:08
Great post KB. I agree with most of it except people wanting TR to be at the top again, which is impossible unless its turned strictly into a third person shooter only. That is the only way it will get a lot of recongnition again. I also disagree with the whole motion about CORE fans. But I'll leave it at that and really agree with the majority of your post :)

I could go on and on about your mention of short games but I've all ready covered and made my point clearly on that all ready in above posts :P

So again I'll leave it at, good post :)

jayjay119
28th Aug 2009, 20:03
About the whole length thing. I blame linearity and lack of backtracking for that. CD did some brilliant long levels with TRL Kazakstan, TRA St Frances Folly and TRA Sanctuary of the Scion. I want to see a few more levels like that. TRL/TRA made up for short length with great replayability (time trial etc) but treasure hunt mode was dismal at best.

I think kiss-bite is absolutely spot on with what they said. Don't think I could have said it better.

I agree with you that these levels are long but I don't think CD can be fully praised for that, in terms of design and length etc TRA was just building on top of TR1's design and the Kazakhstan level was made long by the unbelievably boring, linear bike sequence. The longest levels that I can credit CD for actually being long without some linear padding are really only TRL England and TRU Thailand and Mexico!



Great post KB. I agree with most of it except people wanting TR to be at the top again, which is impossible unless its turned strictly into a third person shooter only. That is the only way it will get a lot of recongnition again. I also disagree with the whole motion about CORE fans. But I'll leave it at that and really agree with the majority of your post :)



One again I agree!

Error96_
29th Aug 2009, 00:04
Kiss bite was so tottaly right with everything and there nothing at all in the post I disagree with. I am one of those who have been with TR since the very start and really want to see TR do well.

I agree with Flint that St Frances Folly and Kazakhstan are the type of long exciting levels I want to see more of. I would praise those as great TR levels.

Rusty_DK
29th Aug 2009, 02:22
I disagree 100%, unless you want a boring third person shooter as it did nothing else, with literally zero platforming.

I also disagree with flint about TRU being a failure(AOD all ready claimed that prize) and that CD should listen to the fans

heres the truth so take it as you will

its not CD thats ''hurting'' the TR franchise, honestly its the fans. The ones who refuse to let nostalgia go and want the same ol damn thing over and over again just because they're afraid of change.

In my opinion its the FANS who hurt this franchise more than the developers do. Sad but true. CD tries something new, fans cry,CD tries catering adding a bit more of OLD TR feel that fans were whining for,fans still cry. Now with TR 9, CD is trying new things and myself and others are still crying.

Need to face facts, we hurt the franchise more than we do help it because like I stated before, we all whine too much about ''its not like this and that''.

This will be replied to with disagreement, but even if you disagree, its the truth.

There is SOME truth to this, but at the end of the day it isnt the fans who make the game, its the developers. In my opinion TR is going stale, and it needs a complete re-vamp. This coming from a person who has been with the game since 1996.

I have not really seen anything "new" be brought into the TR franchise since CD took over. Its all old ideas just being re-used...I dunno, maybe its me but lately I have found TR to be very *yawn*

josh1122
29th Aug 2009, 03:52
There is TONS of truth to this, but at the end of the day it isnt the fans who make the game, its the developers. In my opinion TR is going stale, and it needs a complete re-vamp. This coming from a person who has been with the game since 1996.

I have not really seen anything "new" be brought into the TR franchise since CD took over. Its all old ideas just being re-used...I dunno, maybe its me but lately I have found TR to be very *yawn*

Everything I've said as well has come from someone that's been around from the beginning as well ;)

Also TR has lost its drive since TR 3(mainstream and sales), so for people that say TR has gotten stale just with CD reign are full of it and are looking for reasons to bicker. Even with the franchise not being able to contend with the bigger franchises anymore, it still manages to sell pretty well too, so it can't be deemed as a failure either.

It's like you and others have said, CD has re-used old things,which fans still complain about. So fans bicker about how CD does nothing new, then if they try to change things a little bit, the same fans bicker that they need more ''OLD'' stuff re-used, so its like a ''wtf'' situation where CD can't please the fans at all.

like with all past CD games, I'm sure CORE and just anti-CD will make their voices heard in displeasure,just like there was for TRL,TRA,TRU.. TR 9 won't be any exception. I'm really the only one thats been the huge negative bug on the forum too in regards to TR 9 so far lol

Oh well,threads like these always stir of disagreements and debates :D. Better than forum games though ;)

Pulse
29th Aug 2009, 06:15
"The next Tomb Raider will surprise everyone....."

Oh yeah, what we've seen of TR9 was definately surprising.

Mick2412
29th Aug 2009, 22:44
Ideally in gameplay terms I want to see the action as good as TRL, level design like TRA with music and vibe of the Core games. Obviously that will never happen. Way too difficult so I am more just looking for a great TR game that I want to play again and again. However CD do that I don't really mind.

Tihocan
2nd Sep 2009, 12:11
I would simply like for CD to design truly amazing, gargantuan and/or devious puzzles. Sure, keep the hints system in there, but make it so that the player actually has to investigate before "rewarding" them with a hint.

Games platforms have the capacity, there's not a whole lot holding them back, except for a lack of striving for that real wow factor. There were fleeting moments (I remember the ground opening up in Mexico, and a few others) but mostly it felt a bit 'key goes in here'.

Also - and I know most people disagree - would like to see the combat be less 'arcadey'. If she gets shot, it should hurt. I should fear that. Sure, keep the arcadey style for people who like that jump and roll and shoot play (the play customisation was a great idea).

Wow. Fear. Triumph.

In short, make me feel something.