View Full Version : Conversation System in Deus Ex is still the best.

20th Aug 2009, 11:44
The one thing that Deus Ex had that really make's it the king of FPS/RPG's was the conversation system in the game. It's the only game where you can actually forget that your talking to a computer. It was this simplest of ideas and yet every other game seems to have this aspect broken that's been made after it. Whenever you had a conversation with someone it was because you where meant to have it. You know this because the game will switch to 3ed person perspective and your character will be engaged in a conversation. However not every character would trigger a 3ed person conversation event when you tried to talk to them. They would use A.I. brakes, you know what I'm talking about, to show that the conversation was pointless and that the player could move on.

This here is one of the aspects that really makes Deus Ex so great. It had a large amount of variability in how events would be shaped. The player always knew when a conversation was impotent. It never broke the flow of storyline development or lost the illuson that a conversation was not real. This is something that other RPGs got wrong. Mass Effect for example had a broken conversation system in comparison, same with Kotor. You never had a clear definition of when a conversation was impotent or when it was trip, because there was on clear definition between the two.

This is something that really needs to be on par when a game wishes to call it's self Deus Ex. It needs to have non-flow braking conversations system like in Deus Ex. Tripe needs to labeled as tripe before a player engages in conversations. And never should the player engage in a conversation twice, or have conversation loops where a player can ask the same question twice... and get the same response.

In Deus Ex if you ask a suspect the same questions over and over again they eventfully wake away.

20th Aug 2009, 12:27
I completley agree with what you have just said. What made the game so great was the way that conversations allowed you to uncover extra content and progress sub-plots. Take talking to the (Echelon?) AI in the basement of the Illuminati and Luis De Beers. The player could have just walked on by, the third person conversation perspective drew them into asking questions.

20th Aug 2009, 13:27
I disagree. The different perspective may help with the pacing and storytelling but it is also very artificial and far from being a good world simulation. I also disagree with the statement that DX features the best overall conversation system. Games like VtMB for example offered the player more options to influence the outcome of a conversation, partially based on attributes.

Edit: I also think that it was a bad idea to include the last two options ("It definitely dose some things right.") into the poll. The question was if it is "the best system" - that can be answered with "yes" or "no".

20th Aug 2009, 14:29
I don't know, it's the same old system role-playing games had been using for years, only maybe the first to be used in a first-person game (and I doubt that, too). I don't think it was very special, other than how it did well to cater to both story-lovers and others who wouldn't care so much about the story. So you can cut to the chase to get what you want and move on, or stop by and explore more and more of the story. I think that choice in itself is more important than any amount of story quality.

I think the number one way to go forward in dialogue systems for any game type now (RPG/FPS/TPS, anything) would be to make things dynamic. Characters move around, use objects, cameras shift cinematically etc. They shouldn't stand around looking like they're being interrogated, but actually be doing something, maybe even react to the dynamic environment during combat; for eg. a person examining a recently-killed guy during conversation.

20th Aug 2009, 17:33
Personally a first person conversation should be made in two ways.

-First: with total freedom.
When you speak to somebody and stay at a reasonable distance the conversation is engage and stay engaged, you can move around the NPC that you are talking with. seeing the different portaits in the conversation bar that appear during the conversation.
-Second: camera that look through the eyes of one the persons who hear the conversation and look at his interlocutor.
this one keeps the dynamism of the deus ex conversation system but have the same inconvenient (the impossibility to control our character during the conversation.

I just want to remind the fact in none of those systems there is a stupid zooming face

The external moving camera

This one is the classic Deus Ex system, the camera move around and "film" the scene during the conversation between all characters and "choose" automatically the right location to "film" the conversation.

For the rest I just hope they keep some dynamism, and most importantly some interactions

20th Aug 2009, 17:58
I loved how the dialogues were handled in DX.

Even though the dialogue options created a feeling of non-linearity and choice, they were also always in character. In many RPG's, "good" and "evil" dialogue options seem too forced to me, too unrealistic. Some additional variety with conversation skills would be very welcome like Fox said. I think my favorite system is the one in Bloodlines.

And about the visuals, I loved the random 3rd person cameras. But I don't mind first person conversations.

20th Aug 2009, 18:46
I went for the last option because I like the old system but I think it can be improved upon, so it isn't 'perfect'.

20th Aug 2009, 21:05
^ Exactly.

21st Aug 2009, 02:29
I agree with MyImmortal on this one.