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royal flush
12th Aug 2009, 18:20
i know this show is pretty much hated by *hardcore* fans and i can't understand why. i consider myself a hardcore batman fan and i think the show is amazing . people think it is to kiddie or that it is not taking itself seriously but it is. the writing is awesome , the character design is legendary ...... literally ! all of the character designs are based off of the great dc comics artists from the silver and gold ages ( accept blue beetle ) . if you haven't seen it i recommend that you do soon. p.s their joker is richard sprang style and he's mondo cool!

Old_BenKenobi
12th Aug 2009, 18:45
People who dislike the series without having watched it take Batman too seriously and are missing the point.

I myself am getting tired of the "ZOMG IT NEEDZ TO B DARK AND GLOOMY OR IT AINT BATMAN!!" attitude that a lot of Batfans seem to be expressing. A nice, light-hearted romp is always fun.

royal flush
12th Aug 2009, 19:36
r. lee ermy is wildcat!!!!! so fitting

Drazar
12th Aug 2009, 19:38
Me and Ensanquined Walls actually did a Batman: the Brave and the Bold marathon today. :D It was OUTRAGEOUS!

royal flush
12th Aug 2009, 19:54
best episode : game over for owlman
second best : legend of the dark mite ( written by paul dini himself )

batfan08
12th Aug 2009, 19:59
POW!Take that PVT.Pyle!

Drazar
12th Aug 2009, 20:01
Favorite episode:
Legends of the Dark Mite
Favorite 2-partner
Deep cover for Batman & Game over for Owlman!
Favorite sidekick:
Aquaman!

The show has alot of great moments, one-liners and whatnot. :D It was pretty shocking again to watch the Christmas Special episode, the show creators sure have balls to show such things on christmas. :(

batfan08
12th Aug 2009, 20:03
I love the show,and can't wait until New episodes start in the US.

Batfan22
12th Aug 2009, 20:03
i just cant really get in to it but i no its not bad either, however i love the theme song

ChristianBaleBatman
12th Aug 2009, 20:20
I'm a hardcore Batman fan...a realist too, in the sense that I prefer Bats grounded in Gotham.

But, even I love the show. It's fantastic. It's so tounge and cheek, you'd be hard pressed to find a Batman fan not in on the joke.

The Batmite episode basically explains the entire point of the series to people. I enjoyed the callbacks to the Batman Begins Batman, DKR Batman, Batman and Robin Batman, Vampire Batman...that was a great episode.

Clown Prince Of Crime
12th Aug 2009, 20:34
Cause I live in the UK I have to watch it on Cartoon Network.

But they have two episodes back to back every day from 2pm-3pm.

I also like the show, but I'm sick of seeing the same episodes. Every time I watch it either 'Fall of the Blue Beetle' or 'Journey to the center of the Bat' is on. I've already seen all the current series' epsiodes, so I'm dying for a new series !

I also love the theme song :)

KillerCroc
12th Aug 2009, 20:49
I like it. But the title should be changed to Batman: The Brave and the Bold Cartoon. Because there is a comic and a Brave and the Bold comic, so it can be misleading. But me and Drazar talk about it all of the time. It's a great show. :)

Drazar
12th Aug 2009, 21:07
http://i30.tinypic.com/294kydv.png
Did anyone get this novel? Such a best-seller! :p

http://i28.tinypic.com/10p94c3.jpg
Not to mention the movie coming out of it! :p

http://i28.tinypic.com/2mwb5gp.jpg
Jems band makes a comeback with Aquaman!

http://i31.tinypic.com/280ryab.jpg
Not to mention Aquaman's new partner!

PS. This thread is now Outrageous!

Billyman
12th Aug 2009, 21:13
I love Batman Brave and the Bold......some peeps really need to lighten up.

OrganicLifeform
12th Aug 2009, 21:25
Sadly, this show does not air in the Netherlands (where I live). I watched some episodes on Youtube though and really enjoyed it. I also like The Batman...I don't really understand why it's perceived quite negatively.

Still trying to get my hands on the Animated Series from the 90's and Batman Beyond...nothing can top that IMO.

Talvrae
12th Aug 2009, 22:06
Have watched an episode out of curiosity... i could not stop banguing my head on the wall, it's really not for me

warvibe24
13th Aug 2009, 02:14
Brave and the bold is the worst show ever.

D.A.V.E.
13th Aug 2009, 02:23
I'm a huge fan of Brave and the Bold. Like Teen Titans before it, it has humorous stories, dark stories, trippy stories, and even the occassional boring story...and gets away with it.

Plus, it is a haven for DC's more obscure heroes, villains, and concepts. It is also free of Bat-Embargo, so it can use any Batman villain it pleases, from the Joker to Kite Man. It pays tributes to the comics and previous TV series and cartoons.

BTW, anyone checked out "Inside the Outsiders"? It aired in Australia.

stoobytoons
13th Aug 2009, 02:44
To put it bluntly, BATB is the only Batman anything on tv right now that's actually new. To some people, if it's got Batman, it's worth watching.
While I am a Batman purist, I can appreciate the fact that it's an attempt to do something different with the character. However "good writing" and "colorful characters" doesn't necessarily a "great" Batman show make. For instance, I love the show Family Guy because of the great satire and I find most of the writing to be really good. Would I want Batman to have his own show done in the same style? Absolutely not.
Look, the "lighten up" comments directed at people who don't dig this new show are fairly unfounded. Everyone has their own connection with any comic book hero. For many people older than 18 - 20, the Adam West series or the Superfriends versions of Batman were the main introductions to the televised character. Growing up, it made no sense to ME for Batman to be acting the way he was. "What was with the bright blue suit? Really? The Commissioner has a Bat-phone? Why are Robin's shorts so... short?" For goodness sake! Why was Batman fighting crime in the first place? This fundamental question wasn't answered for me until I picked up my first Batman trade "Tales of the Demon" and once Batman '89 came out, I finally got a Batman that made sense from head to toe.
Black suit? Makes sense, he sneaks up on guys.. and bats aren't blue anyway. And he runs around at night. He has to be terrifying to be effective. I mean, says so right in Detective Comics #27.
Brooding? Makes sense, he saw his parents shot when he was 8.
No lame superhero team-ups? Makes sense. The guy has a personal war on crime for one thing, and if there were other super-powered heroes, what use would a mortal man have? I mean, Superman can just fly above the clouds and hear everything happening according to his last flick. And if he screws up, he can just reverse time. :rolleyes:


*And I've seen a few episodes, by the way.*
So, I don't want to condemn you guys that are in love with the new show. It is what it is. I accept that. But for those of us that feel it doesn't quite "make sense" in terms of what would be a logical character that, for so many reasons, is the closest to "realistic" that has managed to last so many decades -- I hear ya. It's not "our" Batman. We don't HAVE to like it because someone else does anymore than we have to like broccoli because Mom puts it on our plate.:thumb:

Ensanguined Walls
13th Aug 2009, 02:53
I was watching quite a few episodes with Drazar earlier for our OUTRAGEOUS MARATHON, and I must say this: I love Brave and the Bold. It's more lighthearted than The Animated Series, but it plucks certain characters out of obscurity and allows them to have fun in this new environment. I also must disagree with those that say the show is excessively campy, as it's simply a different interpretation of the character that is equally as valid as any darker interpretation of Batman.

Yes, it does have a certain degree of camp, but Batman: The Brave and the Bold also has a serious side, as well. On the Christmas episode, we learn that young Bruce Wayne's greed on the holiday led to a series of events that climaxed in the murder of his parents. We see a younger Bruce dispose of the family gift that his father sent him due to the fact that it was not the toy he was anticipating. I even watched one episode with Drazar in which Aquaman sinks into a depression (they don't shy away from providing a dark explanation for his emotions, either).

AdamWest
13th Aug 2009, 02:58
Draz and Walls lol

Old_BenKenobi
13th Aug 2009, 03:08
To put it bluntly, BATB is the only Batman anything on tv right now that's actually new. To some people, if it's got Batman, it's worth watching.
While I am a Batman purist, I can appreciate the fact that it's an attempt to do something different with the character. However "good writing" and "colorful characters" doesn't necessarily a "great" Batman show make. For instance, I love the show Family Guy because of the great satire and I find most of the writing to be really good. Would I want Batman to have his own show done in the same style? Absolutely not.
Look, the "lighten up" comments directed at people who don't dig this new show are fairly unfounded. Everyone has their own connection with any comic book hero. For many people older than 18 - 20, the Adam West series or the Superfriends versions of Batman were the main introductions to the televised character. Growing up, it made no sense to ME for Batman to be acting the way he was. "What was with the bright blue suit? Really? The Commissioner has a Bat-phone? Why are Robin's shorts so... short?" For goodness sake! Why was Batman fighting crime in the first place? This fundamental question wasn't answered for me until I picked up my first Batman trade "Tales of the Demon" and once Batman '89 came out, I finally got a Batman that made sense from head to toe.
Black suit? Makes sense, he sneaks up on guys.. and bats aren't blue anyway. And he runs around at night. He has to be terrifying to be effective. I mean, says so right in Detective Comics #27.
Brooding? Makes sense, he saw his parents shot when he was 8.
No lame superhero team-ups? Makes sense. The guy has a personal war on crime for one thing, and if there were other super-powered heroes, what use would a mortal man have? I mean, Superman can just fly above the clouds and hear everything happening according to his last flick. And if he screws up, he can just reverse time. :rolleyes:


*And I've seen a few episodes, by the way.*
So, I don't want to condemn you guys that are in love with the new show. It is what it is. I accept that. But for those of us that feel it doesn't quite "make sense" in terms of what would be a logical character that, for so many reasons, is the closest to "realistic" that has managed to last so many decades -- I hear ya. It's not "our" Batman. We don't HAVE to like it because someone else does anymore than we have to like broccoli because Mom puts it on our plate.:thumb:

Not to undermine your post, but I can't help but be reminded of a scene in an episode called "Legend of the Dark Mite". Bat-Mite breaks the fourth wall and is hosting a panel at a Comic-Con spoof. One guy in a Batman costume stands up and asks:

"I always thought Batman was best suited in the role of a gritty urban crime detective, but now you have him up against Santas and even Easter Bunnies?! I'm sorry, but that's not my Batman."

Bat-Mite replies: "Batman's rich history allows him to be interpreted in a multitude of ways. To be sure, this is a lighter incarnation, but it's certainly no less valid and true to the character's roots as the tortured avenger crying out for mommy and daddy."

batfan08
13th Aug 2009, 03:11
Does anyone know when new episodes will start in the US?I download them from the Playstation store,and the last one I've seen was "The Last Bat on Earth."

DarkCrusader67
13th Aug 2009, 03:17
is there a good website that has all of season put together?

stoobytoons
13th Aug 2009, 03:19
Not to undermine your post, but I can't help but be reminded of a scene in an episode called "Legend of the Dark Mite". Bat-Mite breaks the fourth wall and is hosting a panel at a Comic-Con spoof. One guy in a Batman costume stands up and asks:

"I always thought Batman was best suited in the role of a gritty urban crime detective, but now you have him up against Santas and even Easter Bunnies?! I'm sorry, but that's not my Batman."

Bat-Mite replies: "Batman's rich history allows him to be interpreted in a multitude of ways. To be sure, this is a lighter incarnation, but it's certainly no less valid and true to the character's roots as the tortured avenger crying out for mommy and daddy."

Yeah, that made me chuckle too.

Look, we've all got a past. Batman -- the comic book, and all related titles -- bares no exception. I'm not sure Bob Kane would be thrilled with seeing the pink suited Batman get his own show just because some writer chose to throw it in an issue during the 60's.
Yeah, he may have a "rich history," but focusing on the more bazaar aspects doesn't really make it any less, well, bazaar or any more interesting, in my humble opinion.

Old_BenKenobi
13th Aug 2009, 03:28
Well I'm a big fan of the campy Batman, so the show is a treat for me.

There was an episode of TAS where they did two segments, one featuring the campy Batman, Robin and Joker, and one based on TDKR. The fact that they were played back to back and both are entertaining says something to me. The way I see it, there are two characters. Campy Batman and Grim Batman. When you see them as one character you tend to gravitate one way. Everyone has a past, yes, but everyone has a future too. Seeing them as two separate characters Really helps you shed the hostility towards either. Grim Batman isn't weighed down by a goofy past filled with cornball scenes and logical fallacies and Campy Batman isn't weighed down by a gritty bastard that takes himself way too seriously. :p

And Batfan: You can watch the whole run on Youtube.

stoobytoons
13th Aug 2009, 04:05
Well I'm a big fan of the campy Batman, so the show is a treat for me.

There was an episode of TAS where they did two segments, one featuring the campy Batman, Robin and Joker, and one based on TDKR. The fact that they were played back to back and both are entertaining says something to me. The way I see it, there are two characters. Campy Batman and Grim Batman. When you see them as one character you tend to gravitate one way. Everyone has a past, yes, but everyone has a future too. Seeing them as two separate characters Really helps you shed the hostility towards either. Grim Batman isn't weighed down by a goofy past filled with cornball scenes and logical fallacies and Campy Batman isn't weighed down by a gritty bastard that takes himself way too seriously. :p

And Batfan: You can watch the whole run on Youtube.

I respect that opinion. I can't say I agree, but I respect it. :)

Maybe Campy Batman can shoot Grim Batman's Robin so that Grim Batman can make complete sense. hehe

batfan08
13th Aug 2009, 04:20
Well I'm a big fan of the campy Batman, so the show is a treat for me.

There was an episode of TAS where they did two segments, one featuring the campy Batman, Robin and Joker, and one based on TDKR. The fact that they were played back to back and both are entertaining says something to me. The way I see it, there are two characters. Campy Batman and Grim Batman. When you see them as one character you tend to gravitate one way. Everyone has a past, yes, but everyone has a future too. Seeing them as two separate characters Really helps you shed the hostility towards either. Grim Batman isn't weighed down by a goofy past filled with cornball scenes and logical fallacies and Campy Batman isn't weighed down by a gritty bastard that takes himself way too seriously. :p

And Batfan: You can watch the whole run on Youtube.

No,I have all of the episodes on my Playstation,but The Last Bat on Earth is the last episode that aired in the U.S.

Old_BenKenobi
13th Aug 2009, 04:33
Does anyone know when new episodes will start in the US?I download them from the Playstation store,and the last one I've seen was "The Last Bat on Earth."


No,I have all of the episodes on my Playstation,but The Last Bat on Earth is the last episode that aired in the U.S.
Sorry dude, I was talking to Dark Crusade and got mixed up. :p

batfan08
13th Aug 2009, 04:37
Oh,no problem.

Old_BenKenobi
13th Aug 2009, 04:37
I respect that opinion. I can't say I agree, but I respect it. :)

Maybe Campy Batman can shoot Grim Batman's Robin so that Grim Batman can make complete sense. hehe

Robin totally makes sense. Robin is the only thing that keeps the humanity in Batman alive. Without Robin, Batman slowly gets consumed by his own monster. :p

stoobytoons
13th Aug 2009, 04:46
Robin totally makes sense. Robin is the only thing that keeps the humanity in Batman alive. Without Robin, Batman slowly gets consumed by his own monster. :p

Meh. This is a "chicken and the egg" situation. Which came first Batman's lack of humanity or Robin? Meditate on that for a while. :D

evilmajikman
13th Aug 2009, 04:52
Honestly I cant stand the show, when I said awhile ago I wanted a show without Batman or Batgirl, I meant a show without sidekicks, sigh. Then enter Brave and Bold, were every episode follows the same formula. I saw that one episode where they had that little goofball call the movie style outfit icky.... needless to say I would have thrown him into an erupting volcano.

Old_BenKenobi
13th Aug 2009, 05:13
Honestly I cant stand the show, when I said awhile ago I wanted a show without Batman or Batgirl, I meant a show without sidekicks, sigh. Then enter Brave and Bold, were every episode follows the same formula. I saw that one episode where they had that little goofball call the movie style outfit icky.... needless to say I would have thrown him into an erupting volcano.

You don't think the shiny, black rubber suit with nipples is icky?

Old_BenKenobi
13th Aug 2009, 05:18
Meh. This is a "chicken and the egg" situation. Which came first Batman's lack of humanity or Robin? Meditate on that for a while. :D

Well after Jason Todd died Batman slid down a dark slope and it was agreed on by his peers that he needed a Robin to anchor him.

ChristianBaleBatman
13th Aug 2009, 05:58
I thought Alfred was the one that kept Bruce's humanity intact by constantly serving as a reminder of who he is, and what his parents believed in.

Robin ultimately serves as his comedy relief by keeping Batman a little on the light side, and less violent.

I always thought those were they're roles as foils to Batman.

Lunar
13th Aug 2009, 06:11
I used to see it on Cartoon Network never watched it til the other day. It's a really good show.

stoobytoons
13th Aug 2009, 06:12
Well after Jason Todd died Batman slid down a dark slope and it was agreed on by his peers that he needed a Robin to anchor him.

Then what was **** Grayson? An attempt to make Batman's sexual preference ambiguous? I'm gonna have to go with....


I thought Alfred was the one that kept Bruce's humanity intact by constantly serving as a reminder of who he is, and what his parents believed in.

Robin ultimately serves as his comedy relief by keeping Batman a little on the light side, and less violent.

I always thought those were they're roles as foils to Batman.

^This.

Robin was the Jar-Jar, C-3P0, Bucky, or Ernie to Batman. Robin has never worked 100% in my mind, however Nightwing makes sense. Go figure.

royal flush
13th Aug 2009, 10:12
is it just me or does aquaman sound like a manly bender from futurama???

Drazar
13th Aug 2009, 11:09
is it just me or does aquaman sound like a manly bender from futurama???

John Dimaggio (Bender) is Aquaman & Gorilla Grodd of this show. :D

PS. Its been shown by writers that Alfred and Robin were there to retain Batman's humanity, Robin became a big part of this because he was actually there fightning with him, while Alfred was the shadow of a bigger shadow as he said himself. (In the latest Batman issue even :p)

I think the best things about the show is how much of a mean person can Batman be in this show, he punches criminals at times for no reason and whatnot. :D Can't wait to see the Adam West, Julia Newmar, Kevin Conroy & Mark Hamill episode. : }

Talvrae
13th Aug 2009, 12:09
Not to undermine your post, but I can't help but be reminded of a scene in an episode called "Legend of the Dark Mite". Bat-Mite breaks the fourth wall and is hosting a panel at a Comic-Con spoof. One guy in a Batman costume stands up and asks:

"I always thought Batman was best suited in the role of a gritty urban crime detective, but now you have him up against Santas and even Easter Bunnies?! I'm sorry, but that's not my Batman."

Bat-Mite replies: "Batman's rich history allows him to be interpreted in a multitude of ways. To be sure, this is a lighter incarnation, but it's certainly no less valid and true to the character's roots as the tortured avenger crying out for mommy and daddy."

Maybe... but we dont have to like, you enjoy it good for you... but some of us, me included really don't and that's good too, i admit i only watched half of one episode (Rise of the blue bettle) but righ at start i was like "Oh well i'm feeling like i'm watching Adam West show) And i really dint like it... At half the episode i changed of channel i could not stand it... And it's my opinion and it's as valid as yours because that what it is "AN OPINION" it's subjectives...

Ensanguined Walls
13th Aug 2009, 20:36
Maybe... but we dont have to like, you enjoy it good for you... but some of us, me included really don't and that's good too, i admit i only watched half of one episode (Rise of the blue bettle) but righ at start i was like "Oh well i'm feeling like i'm watching Adam West show) And i really dint like it... At half the episode i changed of channel i could not stand it... And it's my opinion and it's as valid as yours because that what it is "AN OPINION" it's subjectives...

I think it's unfair to judge the entire series on one episode. I can assure you that the show is not excessively campy, and many of the storylines in certain episodes are quite emotional. Consider watching "Hail the Tornado Tyrant!" (this episode has many parallels to Isaac Isamov's The Bicentennial Man) and "Invasion of the Secret Santas!".

After viewing the entire series in a marathon with Drazar and AdamWest, I will admit that I misjudged the Brave and the Bold. It's a treat for Batman fans that want a lighthearted, cameo-infused joyride to show off the variety in the DC universe, but it also manages to surprise you with serious moments. Batman's character is completely well-written, and Paul Dini himself has even been an occasional guest writer. They don't shy away from showing the tragedy of Batman's character, and each episode reminds us why he values the companionship of his friends, from humorous competitions with Green Arrow to pondering life with Red Tornado.

http://i32.tinypic.com/116iebt.png

:thumb:

Best marathon ever. Thanks, Drazar and AdamWest!

Old_BenKenobi
13th Aug 2009, 21:22
Then what was **** Grayson? An attempt to make Batman's sexual preference ambiguous? I'm gonna have to go with....



^This.

Robin was the Jar-Jar, C-3P0, Bucky, or Ernie to Batman. Robin has never worked 100% in my mind, however Nightwing makes sense. Go figure.

**** Grayson was the same thing. Alfred keeps Batman saner when he's at home, but Alfred isn't out in the field with Batman.

I'm not a fan of Robin being a 12 year old kid, but when he's in his late teens/early 20s like in TAS I think he works quite well.

stoobytoons
14th Aug 2009, 05:54
**** Grayson was the same thing. Alfred keeps Batman saner when he's at home, but Alfred isn't out in the field with Batman.

I'm not a fan of Robin being a 12 year old kid, but when he's in his late teens/early 20s like in TAS I think he works quite well.

Y'know (And I'm not picking on you, Old Ben, since you aren't the first person to suggest this POV) but I find that Robin being the thing holding Batman back as QUITE a convenient excuse for keeping the character around. In my mind, Robin has fans that want him around because, well, they just like the "Dynamic Duo" or that individual character.

But lets think for a minute about the character of Batman. Better yet, let's think about Bruce Wayne for a minute.
His parents are gunned down at a tender age.
He grows up hating crime and makes a vow to save the people that would be victims of it.
He travels the world mastering the martial arts, criminology, chemistry, all while pushing past his physical and mental limits, and all in the name of "the plan." That takes an INCREDIBLE amount of willpower, my friend.
He routinely goes out at night to fight crime with his wits, and a handful of, albeit colorful, but ultimately NON-lethal gadgets and lives by the rule that he will not kill his enemies but bring them to justice.

So, I ask you, for a man who plucked himself from the excrement of his parents' murder and turned his life around for the betterment of mankind how is a 12 year-old supposed to add any bit of humanity to his psyche?

The answer is simple: Robin - be it Grayson, Todd, Drake or whoever is born of a writer's early gimmick to make the comic book feel less crime noir and more "kid friendly," and subsequent writers have only spun the characters purpose in a way that really isn't necessary.

I say, own up to it, DC writers. No matter how hard you try to spin that web of wool, it's not going to go over my eyes. So, again: own up to it. Bruce takes in a protege... it makes sense. Give back to the community. But for the purpose of keeping him "human?"
If I wanted the struggle of keeping a hero human and sniveling about it from book to book, I'd switch to Spider-Man.

Jack J Napier
14th Aug 2009, 06:28
Then what was **** Grayson? An attempt to make Batman's sexual preference ambiguous? I'm gonna have to go with....



^This.

Robin was the Jar-Jar, C-3P0, Bucky, or Ernie to Batman. Robin has never worked 100% in my mind, however Nightwing makes sense. Go figure.

Robin is nothing like any of these characters. Bucky is his own man and can be said to be more like Batman or Jason Todd, after his death. All of the robins rather it be Tim Drake, **** Grayson, or Jason Todd they all have a horrific back story, which adds to why Batman took him under his "wing". Either with Batman or by himself, Robin is a great character.

batfan08
14th Aug 2009, 06:38
I know I've asked before,but does anyone know when the rest of the season(starting withWhen OMAC Atacks!)will air in the US,or anywhere else for that matter.For some reason,the current episodes have only aired in Australia,so far.Can someone explain this to me?Thanks.

Termix
14th Aug 2009, 06:39
Not the best show, but it's "watchable" :>

Allanon
14th Aug 2009, 07:03
I don't understand what part of Robin doesn't make sense. Firstly a bond was pretty firmly established when Grayson went through a very similar traumatic event to Batman. If anything were to affect the emotions of Batman it would be that. He would want to help the child in any way he could, to inadvertently try and comfort himself. It would make sense then that Robin after going through such an event and keeping a still positive outlook on life would give Batman a tie to reality that Alfred could never give him. After Grayson, it would make sense that he would try and seek out the comfort or tie that he had before with Grayson, and he would subconsciously be searching for somebody to replace him.

What part of that doesn't make sense?


Anyway as for the Brave and the Bold, I love it. I think that it is a fun show that really gives some screen time to some of the more underrated or underexposed heroes and villains, and is a big treat for fans of comics in general.

Vigilance
14th Aug 2009, 07:14
For me it's not that he doesn't make sense, he's just a really annoying character.

Allanon
14th Aug 2009, 08:10
For me it's not that he doesn't make sense, he's just a really annoying character.

I think he can be annoying, if he is too "Holy Heart-Failure Batman!" or too "Cowabunga!!" then he is terrible, but when he is like he was in the Animated Series he is a likable sensible character who makes a logical evolution to becoming Nightwing.

EDIT: On second thought "Holy Heart-Failure Batman!" Robin can be fun too, just not relative to the dark brooding Batman, if he is in something like Brave and the Bold or the 60's show, then he's fine :P

Drazar
14th Aug 2009, 10:27
Y'know (And I'm not picking on you, Old Ben, since you aren't the first person to suggest this POV) but I find that Robin being the thing holding Batman back as QUITE a convenient excuse for keeping the character around. In my mind, Robin has fans that want him around because, well, they just like the "Dynamic Duo" or that individual character..

Robin has fans because he is a great character and very likeable, this goes to both Richard Grayson (whos now the Batman even, and his comics are on TOP SALES) and Tim Drake (now calling himself Tim Wayne) is now Red Robin, which is also on top 20 sales regarding all comic books, so really both characters are great as much as Bruce Wayne.


So, I ask you, for a man who plucked himself from the excrement of his parents' murder and turned his life around for the betterment of mankind how is a 12 year-old supposed to add any bit of humanity to his psyche?

I recommend getting Batman R.I.P which retells the story of Bruce's lifetime. Its Robin who was there with Bruce, it could have been a grown man with there, but Bruce chose Grayson because they shared the both fate: parents getting gunned down by a low life crook.


The answer is simple: Robin - be it Grayson, Todd, Drake or whoever is born of a writer's early gimmick to make the comic book feel less crime noir and more "kid friendly," and subsequent writers have only spun the characters purpose in a way that really isn't necessary.


Calling Jason Todd kid friendly just shows youre not on top notch knowing about the Robins, so could you please try to atleast learn abit more about them before debating about them? :(

DarkKnight11
14th Aug 2009, 12:47
To put it bluntly, BATB is the only Batman anything on tv right now that's actually new. To some people, if it's got Batman, it's worth watching.
While I am a Batman purist, I can appreciate the fact that it's an attempt to do something different with the character. However "good writing" and "colorful characters" doesn't necessarily a "great" Batman show make.:thumb:

I know someone has already commented on this post, but I found this particular comment to be entertaining. First, they're not doing something different, they're revitalizing an entertaining but campy version of Batman from the old DC team ups of the Brave and the Bold comics. More importantly though, what does it mean to be a Batman purist? Batman has gone through so many changes over the last 70 years that there's really nothing pure left. I think being a Batman purist really means being open to appreciating the numerous incarnations of Batman in some way, despite having a favorite that doesn't agree with the style of the others. I love Brave and the Bold because it's goofy and lighthearted, and camp is usually one of the funniest things there can be in a superhero story.

I'm reminded of a valentine card I saw spoofed once online. It had Batman swinging on his batrope and the card said "Swinging in to wish you a Happy Valentines Day". Someone added a caption that read something to the effect of "I watched my parents gunned down in cold blood when I was 8 and it has haunted me forever. I go out dressed as a bat to strike fear into criminals and wage my personal war against crime. On the rare occasion that I sleep, I wake up in a cold sweat from nightmares about my parents. Will you be my valentine?" Nowadays camp is more like a spoof of what logic tells us Batman should be, and can easily be appreciated as such. You should try it.

AdamWest
14th Aug 2009, 13:30
I think it's unfair to judge the entire series on one episode. I can assure you that the show is not excessively campy, and many of the storylines in certain episodes are quite emotional. Consider watching "Hail the Tornado Tyrant!" (this episode has many parallels to Isaac Isamov's The Bicentennial Man) and "Invasion of the Secret Santas!".

After viewing the entire series in a marathon with Drazar and AdamWest, I will admit that I misjudged the Brave and the Bold. It's a treat for Batman fans that want a lighthearted, cameo-infused joyride to show off the variety in the DC universe, but it also manages to surprise you with serious moments. Batman's character is completely well-written, and Paul Dini himself has even been an occasional guest writer. They don't shy away from showing the tragedy of Batman's character, and each episode reminds us why he values the companionship of his friends, from humorous competitions with Green Arrow to pondering life with Red Tornado.

http://i32.tinypic.com/116iebt.png

:thumb:

Best marathon ever. Thanks, Drazar and AdamWest!

OUTRAGEOUS! :thumb:

Vigilance
14th Aug 2009, 17:42
but when he is like he was in the Animated Series he is a likable sensible character who makes a logical evolution to becoming Nightwing.
He annoyed me in TAS too. Whenever I'm engaged in some media of Batman, I become instantly disappointed if I find out Robin is involved at all. The only time I actually thought Robin was likable was in Batman Forever and Batman and Robin. Unfortunately... well, you're all Batman fans, so you should understand why that's unfortunate.

Allanon
14th Aug 2009, 18:56
He annoyed me in TAS too. Whenever I'm engaged in some media of Batman, I become instantly disappointed if I find out Robin is involved at all. The only time I actually thought Robin was likable was in Batman Forever and Batman and Robin. Unfortunately... well, you're all Batman fans, so you should understand why that's unfortunate.

Robin in those movies is what I meant when I said "Cowabunga" Robin... When he isn't trying to be extreme he is whining about something or another... I don't see any appeal there whatsoever.

DarkKnight11
14th Aug 2009, 22:15
He annoyed me in TAS too. Whenever I'm engaged in some media of Batman, I become instantly disappointed if I find out Robin is involved at all. The only time I actually thought Robin was likable was in Batman Forever and Batman and Robin. Unfortunately... well, you're all Batman fans, so you should understand why that's unfortunate.

I recognize that Robin was only added to make Batman a little less dark so that kids could read it without parents complaining, but Robin serves an important purpose in Batman mythology nowadays, along with the rest of the Gotham Knights characters. Bruce Wayne lost his entire family as a child, and has been rebuilding it through the numerous Robins, Batgirls, and even Gordon and Alfred. Including Robin adds depth to Batman. If you want to consider Richard Grayson specifically, Batman takes him in and makes him the first Robin because his intention when he became Batman, regardless of what his oath said explicitly, was to prevent anyone from ever suffering the pain he suffered as a child. Becoming Batman was how he controlled that pain, and when he couldn't stop Grayson from losing his family in the same way, taking him on as Robin is how Batman protected him from that same suffering.

stoobytoons
14th Aug 2009, 23:47
Robin has fans because he is a great character and very likeable, this goes to both Richard Grayson (whos now the Batman even, and his comics are on TOP SALES) and Tim Drake (now calling himself Tim Wayne) is now Red Robin, which is also on top 20 sales regarding all comic books, so really both characters are great as much as Bruce Wayne.

Okay, "Robin has fans because he's 'likable'" isn't much of a distinction from what I said.
I believe it was you, Drazar, that said "Batman isn't Batman without the rest of the Bat-family." In fact, I would go as far to say that saying "Robin has fans because he's likable" is horribly redundant. Do you think you can express your opinion and clearer than this? Because it doesn't sound like you've got much to add to that point.



I recommend getting Batman R.I.P which retells the story of Bruce's lifetime. Its Robin who was there with Bruce, it could have been a grown man with there, but Bruce chose Grayson because they shared the both fate: parents getting gunned down by a low life crook.

As soon as you get into these different Earth dimensions, there's a lot of room for interpretation and, to be honest, the R.I.P. story line never caught on with me. So, I'm not sure if you are saying that Grayson's parents were gunned down in the RIP history, or if you are saying that they simply died from the fall (per CANON) and their death reflected the Wayne murders. Either way, what am I supposed to be enlightened with? A brand-new history written for a story line who's premise reeks of the word "gimmick"? I think that in my 27 years of being a Batman fan (and at one point a Robin fan) I have learned just all about all I really need to know about the character to make an educated choice concerning my personal opinion about him.



Calling Jason Todd kid friendly just shows youre not on top notch knowing about the Robins, so could you please try to atleast learn abit more about them before debating about them? :(

Drazar. You're obviously too obtuse to recognize the meaning of what "fundamental understanding" would suggest. Let me state it again, and I want you to do me the favor of actually reading the words, taking a breath, and considering what I am saying:

ROBIN - who ever it is [now], was BORN of the idea that the Batman comics were TOO DARK and should be more KID FRIENDLY. To spell it out, think of the 1940's. Oddly enough, the Batman universe wasn't created in 2004. The character has evolved over time, true! But does having a brightly colored CHILD running around chasing psychos like the Joker, Ra's al Ghul (who captured Todd, I might add), Zsasz, etc., ACTUALLY make sense? If so, explain why there was no Bat-boy -- no 14 year old Bruce Wayne running around trying to fight crime.

Guys, there is a reason you aren't seeing Robin on film as a serious consideration. There's a reason the Grayson's show was canceled. It's not because they don't have good writers out there. It's because the character just doesn't fit in a realistic setting.
Does Nightwing work? Sure!! Why not? He's strong enough to be intimidating, but he's smart enough to know that you don't go out at night in a bright orange vest unless you are flagging on Main Street.

Every kid wants to be Batman's partner. Robin, at his inception, gave life to that possibility.

Also, Drazar, I seem to remember you arguing with me about how un-campy The Brave and the Bold was. Many of it's supporters are obviously disagreeing with you. You might want to line-by-line have it out with them as well.

William
14th Aug 2009, 23:48
Watching it right now on television. Its is entertaining but I pretty much love all things batman

HenryundertheC
15th Aug 2009, 00:08
The show is taking Batman in a wrong direction...
but i do agree it's doing good, with a nice talent of stories and animation.

stoobytoons
15th Aug 2009, 00:10
I know someone has already commented on this post, but I found this particular comment to be entertaining. First, they're not doing something different, they're revitalizing an entertaining but campy version of Batman from the old DC team ups of the Brave and the Bold comics. More importantly though, what does it mean to be a Batman purist? Batman has gone through so many changes over the last 70 years that there's really nothing pure left. I think being a Batman purist really means being open to appreciating the numerous incarnations of Batman in some way, despite having a favorite that doesn't agree with the style of the others. I love Brave and the Bold because it's goofy and lighthearted, and camp is usually one of the funniest things there can be in a superhero story.

I'm reminded of a valentine card I saw spoofed once online. It had Batman swinging on his batrope and the card said "Swinging in to wish you a Happy Valentines Day". Someone added a caption that read something to the effect of "I watched my parents gunned down in cold blood when I was 8 and it has haunted me forever. I go out dressed as a bat to strike fear into criminals and wage my personal war against crime. On the rare occasion that I sleep, I wake up in a cold sweat from nightmares about my parents. Will you be my valentine?" Nowadays camp is more like a spoof of what logic tells us Batman should be, and can easily be appreciated as such. You should try it.

Thanks for your rebuttal. Now let me point out where I take issue with the points you've made:

"Revitalizing" a disappointing epoch of Batman lore is less of an achievement than it is an effort to mark time and take a step backward. I understand that there is an ebb and flow to everything; why should Batman be any different? There will be dark, gritty Batmen and zany, chum-o Batmen. It's the nature of the best.

But to explain the purity of what Batman "is" - you need only research his inception. It takes only a moment to be honest with one's self and realize that the "camp" is there for comedic relief. But the tragic hero that Batman actually is, at his core, carries nothing if not the darkness that his soul is drenched in. So, being pure, honest and sincerely connected with that interpretation is exactly why so many fans have clamored for a game like Batman: Arkham Asylum, for example. No body wants a Batman game that plays like Super Mario but that is what the Brave and the Bold gives you. Does this mean there aren't "serious" moments in the show? Obviously not. Every Adam Sandler movie has drama and conflict in it. Does that mean it's a sure thing for Oscar night? Of course, not every Saving Private Ryan is without moments of comic relief. It really isn't so black and white. But it's safe to say that there is a ratio there that sets the tone; the Joel Schumacher films are another example of drawing on less favorable material.

There's something about Batman, the property, that many folks aren't understanding: he is a product. And with any product, you have to introduce something new (i.e. Batman Beyond) or rehash something old (i.e. the Brave and the Bold) to bring in new business. That's the nature of the beast. But strip away the marketing schemes, lunch boxes, action figures, and trading cards, and focus on the legend of the man who pulled himself from the ashes to fight injustice and evil in the name of his slain parents -- that is the purist form of what Batman "is."


As far as finding an honest appreciation for the show: I've looked. I can't.

As far as it being an "old" idea as opposed to being "different," I'm not sure how that's supposed to sell me on the show. But if being an old idea is a road less traveled, perhaps they should stop writing about "good versus evil." Better yet, they can screw with a character that doesn't already have a tumultuous past - The Flash, perhaps. :cool:

Drazar
15th Aug 2009, 00:10
If this is the wrong direction, what is the "right" one? Since even the modern Batman stories are more lighter and more happy-adventures, Batman has a flying batmobile car/ship and Richard Grayson (Batman) smiles allt he time and cracks jokes. So really after 70 years of history, there really is no "wrong" or "right" direction, its taking the best aspects of Batman from the 70 years of long history.

stoobytoons
15th Aug 2009, 00:12
If this is the wrong direction, what is the "right" one? Since even the modern Batman stories are more lighter and more happy-adventures, Batman has a flying batmobile car/ship and Richard Grayson (Batman) smiles allt he time and cracks jokes. So really after 70 years of history, there really is no "wrong" or "right" direction, its taking the best aspects of Batman from the 70 years of long history.

Play Arkham Asylum. You'll get it.

Drazar
15th Aug 2009, 00:29
Okay, "Robin has fans because he's 'likable'" isn't much of a distinction from what I said.
I believe it was you, Drazar, that said "Batman isn't Batman without the rest of the Bat-family." In fact, I would go as far to say that saying "Robin has fans because he's likable" is horribly redundant. Do you think you can express your opinion and clearer than this? Because it doesn't sound like you've got much to add to that point.

Whats there more to say? Robin is a greatly written character, with a supporting cast of his own and has a fanbase, just like Batman. Theres nothing more to add.


Ra's al Ghul (who captured Todd, I might add), Zsasz, etc., ACTUALLY make sense? If so, explain why there was no Bat-boy -- no 14 year old Bruce Wayne running around trying to fight crime.


Because Bruce never had someone to train him like the Robins had maybe? Bruce had to travel all around the world to train himself but the Robins got everything needed from Bruce himself . Makes sense, and hey lets not forget that comic where Bruce turned into Bat-boy/Baby! ;)



Guys, there is a reason you aren't seeing Robin on film as a serious consideration. There's a reason the Grayson's show was canceled. It's not because they don't have good writers out there. It's because the character just doesn't fit in a realistic setting.
Does Nightwing work? Sure!! Why not? He's strong enough to be intimidating, but he's smart enough to know that you don't go out at night in a bright orange vest unless you are flagging on Main Street.

Robin on a film as serious consideration? So Tim Burton's Batman 3 wasn't a serious consideration? :rolleyes: Things would be different with Robin if he had been treated by a good director. Also the Grayson show was canceled due to the horrible ideas, its much easier to make a Smallville show then Grayson since Batman is such a pivotal part of Grayson's life. Still it doesn't mean his comics or comic fanbase is meaningless, not to mention the praise of Richard being Batman neither. =)



Also, Drazar, I seem to remember you arguing with me about how un-campy The Brave and the Bold was. Many of it's supporters are obviously disagreeing with you. You might want to line-by-line have it out with them as well.


Campy is such a wrong used word in my opinion regarding the show, i can admit they use cheesy one-liners but if they wanna call it campy they sure can. Atleast people here aren't trying to claim its a disgrace to Batman or trying to say they just wanna earn easy money thru toys and BTAS was made by people with golden hearts and no intentions of earning money like some have. ;)


Play Arkham Asylum. You'll get it.

Sorry i'm not too much into "1 type of Batman" from his 70 year history, i can accept the wide variety of the Batman history unlike some ofcourse. :) Brave and Bold is as much loyal to the comic franchise as Dini's writing has been.

AdamWest
15th Aug 2009, 01:32
http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l185/Thomas_17th/1250281072655.jpg
http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l185/Thomas_17th/1250281436445.jpg
http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l185/Thomas_17th/1250281987834.jpg

Stop bickering you fools! Aquaman's OUTRAGEOUS has made this the greatest animation EVER!

IT IS SIMPLY OUTRAGEOUS!

RedHoodSecondSon
15th Aug 2009, 01:47
People who dislike the series without having watched it take Batman too seriously and are missing the point.

I myself am getting tired of the "ZOMG IT NEEDZ TO B DARK AND GLOOMY OR IT AINT BATMAN!!" attitude that a lot of Batfans seem to be expressing. A nice, light-hearted romp is always fun.


yeah now and again, but i think that we all agree that mr. kevin conroy and the crew of TAS set the bar for what a Batman series should be, now don't get me wrong i love the 60's batman, the bat shark repellant has my in bits XD so i can see where you are coming from, but i can also see the other side of the coin

Drazar
15th Aug 2009, 01:52
yeah now and again, but i think that we all agree that mr. kevin conroy and the crew of TAS set the bar for what a Batman series should be, now don't get me wrong i love the 60's batman, the bat shark repellant has my in bits XD so i can see where you are coming from, but i can also see the other side of the coin

Well if every Batman cartoon was like TAS, that wouldn't be any fun, right? :) The Batman tried this and it wasn't *that* well received compared to Brave and Bold and TAS which are both instant classics to DC/Batman fans and the response has been just great. :cool::thumb:

PS. Outrageous pictures AdamWest!

Larfleeze
15th Aug 2009, 01:55
Oh man I'm glad you guys love Brave and the Bold as much as I do. I thought I'd have to put up with GRIMDARK RGHHH TDK fans all the time.

Allanon
15th Aug 2009, 03:09
The show is taking Batman in a wrong direction...
but i do agree it's doing good, with a nice talent of stories and animation.

I disagree, the wrong direction would be making a show that is just trying to do what The Animated Series already did. It would never be as good and most longtime fans of Batman would draw constant comparison to TAS just to point out it wasn't nearly as good (The Batman). I'm glad they decided to take Batman in a new direction, something more lighthearted that will get rid of any comparisons simply by the shows being so different. Honestly unless Bruce Timm and WB decide to continue TAS, then I hope to see this show refine its style and writing until it reaches towards perfection of a different kind.


Play Arkham Asylum. You'll get it.
Arkham Asylum is a game. Batman games have never gotten the critical response among games like TAS got among cartoons, there is still lots of room to expand. Would a Brave and the Bold type game work for Batman in games? Yea there is a ton they could do with it, but that they haven't fully explored what many people (myself included) consider the definitive Batman in game form leaves much to be wanted.

I like a dark Batman story as much as the next guy, but that doesn't mean it has to be the exclusive interpretation of the character. That there is such a wealth of material gives people more opportunity to connect with a Batman that they like best.

HenryundertheC
15th Aug 2009, 03:17
I disagree, the wrong direction would be making a show that is just trying to do what The Animated Series already did. It would never be as good and most longtime fans of Batman would draw constant comparison to TAS just to point out it wasn't nearly as good (The Batman). I'm glad they decided to take Batman in a new direction, something more lighthearted that will get rid of any comparisons simply by the shows being so different. Honestly unless Bruce Timm and WB decide to continue TAS, then I hope to see this show refine its style and writing until it reaches towards perfection of a different kind.


What I am trying to say is the change from The Batman and Batman Beyond to Brave and the Bold was not a good turn. Even though all three are well done B&B is at the bottom of the list. Can't top the nineties.
Just because the style is more retro, nalstalgic and portrayed well means nothing. It still draws in the more younger audience then the others, Gotham Knights (the new adventures of batman & robin) was basically TAS and it did a good job. It didn't live up to its predecessor but it would still be well accepted among both adults and todays youth unlike B&B focussing more on the old and rather young and not in between generations.

What we really need is a well-down-to-earth cgi series. ALL CGI is crap except the video games, so why not just get the developers to make a tv series? I would love to just watch a video game cutscene like tv show for half an hour.

Vigilance
15th Aug 2009, 03:22
For me personally, it's not a matter of what's the right batman and what's the wrong batman. I don't read comics so I wouldn't be in the position to make that call anyway. For me personally, it's a matter of what's an awesome batman and what's a ****ty batman.

Allanon
15th Aug 2009, 03:45
What I am trying to say is the change from The Batman and Batman Beyond to Brave and the Bold was not a good turn. Even though all three are well done B&B is at the bottom of the list. Can't top the nineties.
Just because the style is more retro, nalstalgic and portrayed well means nothing. It still draws in the more younger audience then the others, Gotham Knights (the new adventures of batman & robin) was basically TAS and it did a good job. It didn't live up to its predecessor but it would still be well accepted among both adults and todays youth unlike B&B focussing more on the old and rather young and not in between generations.

What we really need is a well-down-to-earth cgi series. ALL CGI is crap except the video games, so why not just get the developers to make a tv series? I would love to just watch a video game cutscene like tv show for half an hour.
3D animation never bodes well for TV. 2D still looks great and can perfectly capture the atmosphere that often times feels too sterile in 3D.

Right, because Brave and the Bold is something that really hasn't been attempted with Batman since the 70's, so it is still trying to find its legs. Give it time, it is well done now but it is certainly on a path to being comparable to the classics in terms of quality (as seen by stellar episodes like Legends of the Dark Mite).

stoobytoons
15th Aug 2009, 19:09
Whats there more to say? Robin is a greatly written character, with a supporting cast of his own and has a fanbase, just like Batman. Theres nothing more to add.

I'll take that as a "no" to my question.




Because Bruce never had someone to train him like the Robins had maybe? Bruce had to travel all around the world to train himself but the Robins got everything needed from Bruce himself . Makes sense, and hey lets not forget that comic where Bruce turned into Bat-boy/Baby! ;)

What are you talking about? According to the comics, he gave that vow shortly after his parents died. He was 8. He also had something Richard Grayson didn't have: money. He could have easily said, "My inheritance is going to take me around the world and learn how to fight and be a detective by the time I'm 14!" But who in their right mind is going to believe that a 14 year old can take on the entire underbelly of the one of the most corrupt, crime-ridden cities in literary history? I say "right mind," Drazar; no need to chime in there. :rolleyes:



Robin on a film as serious consideration? So Tim Burton's Batman 3 wasn't a serious consideration? :rolleyes:

Well, DUDE, Tim Burton only served as an executive producer on the film... which was called Batman Forever. The film was actually directed by a guy named Joel Schumacher. You might want to get that straight once and for all.
Secondly, no. It wasn't a serious consideration or interpretation. Look at the facts:


Richard was in his late teens in the film.
He had a brother, I believe his name was Eric. WHY? Smallest role ever and further separated the film from the source material.
Two-Face killed his parents - this wasn't the case either in the comics but it served as a convenient tie-in, since apparently everyone has to know everyone else in order for a plot to work. :rolleyes:
"Holy rusted metal!"


I won't even start on why the next film was so awful.

But it still proves my point, which is a young boy masquerading as a costumed crime-fighter just isn't safe, nor is it practical. If it were, then there would be no reason to set his age as high as they often do in film and animated interpretations (save for Gotham Knights' Tim Drake which was more like Jason Todd with the 3rd Robin's name; even then it doesn't make much sense - consider the episode where Joker kidnapped Tim and was later killed. It addresses the issue of a young Robin.)



Things would be different with Robin if he had been treated by a good director.

How so? We all know Chris Nolan is a fantastic director. And there are plenty of fantastic directors out there that would love to get their hands on Batman. Explain why anyone else taking over the franchise would convince me that a child fighting the mob makes any sense.



Also the Grayson show was canceled due to the horrible ideas, its much easier to make a Smallville show then Grayson since Batman is such a pivotal part of Grayson's life.

Firstly, the CW is full of rotten apples. Smallville is no exception.
Secondly, you're right. Batman is such a central part of the character of Robin -- it doesn't work the other way around.
Thirdly, Richard was going to be set in his high school years, prior to becoming Robin. Precisely, once again, following the age-old dilemma of why sending a child out to be a hero is the wrong thing to do.



Still it doesn't mean his comics or comic fanbase is meaningless, not to mention the praise of Richard being Batman neither. =)

Please find the quote where I said his comics or fanbase has no meaning.
Frankly, I hear more praise from DC comics employees than from individual readers. But we aren't talking about Richard as Batman, are we? Since, after all, he's an adult now and had been Nightwing for a really long time before these current events took place.



Campy is such a wrong used word in my opinion regarding the show, i can admit they use cheesy one-liners but if they wanna call it campy they sure can. Atleast people here aren't trying to claim its a disgrace to Batman or trying to say they just wanna earn easy money thru toys and BTAS was made by people with golden hearts and no intentions of earning money like some have. ;)

But it is easy money. BTAS easily spent no less than 1 million dollars an episode to put out the show. Each show had a unique story, musical score, and raised the bar for dramatic animation.
The Brave and the Bold follows a pretty similar formula from show to show, capitalizing on silly team-ups, moderate production value, and obscure characters that nobody but the nostalgia whores really give a crap about. Do I care to see Crazy Quilt? F no.



Sorry i'm not too much into "1 type of Batman" from his 70 year history, i can accept the wide variety of the Batman history unlike some ofcourse. :) Brave and Bold is as much loyal to the comic franchise as Dini's writing has been.

"Accepting" and "favoring" are two very different decisions, Drazar. Again, please find a quote where I don't acknowledge that Batman doesn't have a vast history. I believe it was two posts ago that I admitted he has had a tumultuous past.
But it seems you and I are talking about very different things and your apparent opinion only bolsters the statement that I made long ago: if it's Batman, it's worth watching.

So, let me sum it up for you with a metaphor: I like steak. It's one of my favorite meals.
I like it cooked to medium, pepper crusted and with a side of horse radish.
If someone were to lay down a slab of rare New York (people have had rare steak before) with a globule of maple syrup and blue berries piled in the center (I guess to sweeten it up for the kids) you better believe I'd send it back to the kitchen.

I've got standards with Batman, Drazar... un. like. some. ;).

Allanon
15th Aug 2009, 19:47
But it still proves my point, which is a young boy masquerading as a costumed crime-fighter just isn't safe, nor is it practical. If it were, then there would be no reason to set his age as high as they often do in film and animated interpretations (save for Gotham Knights' Tim Drake which was more like Jason Todd with the 3rd Robin's name; even then it doesn't make much sense - consider the episode where Joker kidnapped Tim and was later killed. It addresses the issue of a young Robin.)
I don't see how it being unsafe or impractical makes it not make sense. Batman isn't mentally all that stable, and clearly is very capable of bad decisions. And when he is portrayed as a late teen it is usually to make him seem more extreme, lot's of movies turn child characters into trendy teen ones (Dragonball Evolution anyone?)





How so? We all know Chris Nolan is a fantastic director. And there are plenty of fantastic directors out there that would love to get their hands on Batman. Explain why anyone else taking over the franchise would convince me that a child fighting the mob makes any sense.
That's a good point, let's ask the guy dressed as a bat jumping from the rooftops fighting crime to make sense of it... Oh right its a work of fiction, sometimes a suspension of disbelief has to be there a little bit. Also, despite the origins for Robin being maybe shallow or just an attempt to add a character children could connect to, they really have found ways to make him work, and work very well.

Please find the quote where I said his comics or fanbase has no meaning.
Frankly, I hear more praise from DC comics employees than from individual readers. But we aren't talking about Richard as Batman, are we? Since, after all, he's an adult now and had been Nightwing for a really long time before these current events took place.





But it is easy money. BTAS easily spent no less than 1 million dollars an episode to put out the show. Each show had a unique story, musical score, and raised the bar for dramatic animation.
The Brave and the Bold follows a pretty similar formula from show to show, capitalizing on silly team-ups, moderate production value, and obscure characters that nobody but the nostalgia whores really give a crap about. Do I care to see Crazy Quilt? F no.
BTAS did raise the bar, far too high for a production like that to occur again today. The show is great, but it is also over, and a show trying to be it would be awful (The Batman). The show is formulaic in that it has a hero with Batman against some Villain, but that doesn't mean each story is the same. Legends of the Dark Mite was very different than say, the Deadman episode, or the Plasticman Gorilla Grodd episode. There is plenty of differentiation and it is clear there is a wonderful creative spark behind a lot of the show. And maybe you don't care about Crazy Quilt, but it is a way of introducing people to a wealth of comic characters they probably never heard of.


So, let me sum it up for you with a metaphor: I like steak. It's one of my favorite meals.
I like it cooked to medium, pepper crusted and with a side of horse radish.
If someone were to lay down a slab of rare New York (people have had rare steak before) with a globule of maple syrup and blue berries piled in the center (I guess to sweeten it up for the kids) you better believe I'd send it back to the kitchen.

I've got standards with Batman, Drazar... un. like. some. ;).

I think its more like cake and pie. Some people will claim one is better than the other for no reason than trying to convince themselves what they like is the best, while some people are just happy to have two good things and enjoy both of them. :)

Drazar
15th Aug 2009, 19:59
What are you talking about? According to the comics, he gave that vow shortly after his parents died. He was 8. He also had something Richard Grayson didn't have: money. He could have easily said, "My inheritance is going to take me around the world and learn how to fight and be a detective by the time I'm 14!" But who in their right mind is going to believe that a 14 year old can take on the entire underbelly of the one of the most corrupt, crime-ridden cities in literary history? I say "right mind," Drazar; no need to chime in there. :rolleyes:

Hey it could be done but with the Silver Age tune more than Bronze Age, your suggestion just reminds me of Millar's Kick Ass which is getting its own movie soon too. :D



Well, DUDE, Tim Burton only served as an executive producer on the film...

Actually i was literally talking about Tim Burton's planned Batman 3 with Robin Williams as Riddler, Billy Dee Williams as Harvey Two-Face and Marlon Wayans as Robin the boy wonder. =) I also really don't see the problem of showing a late-teens Robin since even Batman is far older then his comic counterpart was in his early days. :) I don't see people complain about it so why should they complain about teen Robin?



But it still proves my point, which is a young boy masquerading as a costumed crime-fighter just isn't safe, nor is it practical. If it were, then there would be no reason to set his age as high as they often do in film and animated interpretations (save for Gotham Knights' Tim Drake which was more like Jason Todd with the 3rd Robin's name; even then it doesn't make much sense - consider the episode where Joker kidnapped Tim and was later killed. It addresses the issue of a young Robin.)


what issue is there with a young Robin?


The Brave and the Bold follows a pretty similar formula from show to show, capitalizing on silly team-ups, moderate production value, and obscure characters that nobody but the nostalgia whores really give a crap about. Do I care to see Crazy Quilt? F no.


First of all this is your last warning regarding your language. Calling us with nicknames because we like a show that shows older times then when we were even born makes us... Yeah whatever you call us. Also we all know you don't like this show, but why do you come to this thread to complain about it? This show has a huge fanbase and even the guy who owns Batman-on-film loves this show because it reminds himself of his childhood, and the children love this show because its high action, hilarious and most of all: Kickass Batman action. :thumb: Not to mention with great humour, upcoming musical episode, and high demand this show is going to be remembered as nostalgic as TAS is nowdays. :)


I've got standards with Batman, Drazar... un. like. some. ;).

Again watch your tongue here, implying that some of us don't have standards because we like more variety then just Grim Dark Batman, is just tasteless.

PS. And now, for something Outrageous!
http://i39.tinypic.com/908uq0.jpg

batfan08
15th Aug 2009, 20:03
Drazar,do you know when TBATB is coming back in the US?

Drazar
15th Aug 2009, 20:06
Drazar,do you know when TBATB is coming back in the US?

Sorry man i do not. =( I'll promise to post the info here immediatly once we hear something about it. :thumb: Australia has been running some episodes so they definatly got some ready to air already. =)

Vigilance
15th Aug 2009, 20:35
LMFAO. That Spartan thing is hilarious.

batfan08
15th Aug 2009, 20:43
Thanks Drazar

AdamWest
15th Aug 2009, 23:14
http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l185/Thomas_17th/platelet2.jpg

AQUAMAN AND PLATELET....


OUTRAGEOUS!!!!

Azkadellia93
16th Aug 2009, 00:07
I am a hardcore BatFan and i truely love BatmanTAS but what they did with this series is just plain AWSOME its like the 70's version with better animation....c'mon lets face it we all tried watching full episodes of the 70's version but couldn't due to the lack of "action" in the animation.

Larfleeze
16th Aug 2009, 00:25
http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l185/Thomas_17th/1250281987834.jpg


I call this one, "AQUAMANS LOVECRAFTIAN ADVENTURE!"

Or... "THE TIME I TAMED THE ELDER GODS"

stoobytoons
16th Aug 2009, 07:28
First of all this is your last warning regarding your language. Calling us with nicknames because we like a show that shows older times then when we were even born makes us... Yeah whatever you call us. Also we all know you don't like this show, but why do you come to this thread to complain about it? This show has a huge fanbase and even the guy who owns Batman-on-film loves this show because it reminds himself of his childhood, and the children love this show because its high action, hilarious and most of all: Kickass Batman action. :thumb: Not to mention with great humour, upcoming musical episode, and high demand this show is going to be remembered as nostalgic as TAS is nowdays. :)



Again watch your tongue here, implying that some of us don't have standards because we like more variety then just Grim Dark Batman, is just tasteless.


Drazar - if you have a problem with my opinion, this open forum is available to folks who are interested in debate. If you have a problem with foul language, perhaps you shouldn't use it yourself. Making threats against me when this has never been a prior issue seems rather a biased opinion. You don't know me at all and to suggest that I "watch my tongue" is a pretty left-field stand for someone who is supposedly tasked with being a moderator. Aparently, "power abuser" isn't far off -- your words, not mine!

If you have a problem with me using your own back-handed insults such as the "unlike some" comment you posted prior to mine, then perhaps you should be more sensitive to the fact that not everyone is going to agree with you just because you say something is "good."

I am interested in healthy debate if adequate information is used to support it. But don't attempt to pull double-standards and throw a fit when I stand up for my side of the argument. Obviously I walk into the lion's den because post after post of "Yeah, man that's totally a killer show" would be excruciatingly boring and I feel I have my own valid points to make from a very clear and present faction of the Batman fan base.

So, I suggest either we agree to disagree :flowers:, or we continue our own private debate before it gets any uglier in this thread. :scratch:

Ensanguined Walls
16th Aug 2009, 12:26
I respect the fact that you want a healthy debate on this thread, Stooby, but calling fans of Batman: The Brave and the Bold "nostalgia whores" does not contribute to such a debate in any meaningful way. It's both an insult and an outrageous assumption, in my opinion.

Headset
16th Aug 2009, 12:37
The Batman in that show is goofy and that's not my cup of tea. I had a VHS of Batman live action from the 60's and one that's so old it was like black and white that I think was from the 40's. Even as a kid I preferred the black and white one. The second I saw the animation from TBAB my mouth fell open in shock...Are we all seriously running out of creativity? I mean look at the sheer amount of remakes in movies recently, and the horrible trend in fashion and music moving back towards the 80's. Why do the same thing over and over again when you can try something new? Oh yeah, because it's predictable...

stoobytoons
16th Aug 2009, 15:18
I respect the fact that you want a healthy debate on this thread, Stooby, but calling fans of Batman: The Brave and the Bold "nostalgia whores" does not contribute to such a debate in any meaningful way. It's both an insult and an outrageous assumption, in my opinion.

But isn't the nostalgia exactly what is so exciting about the show? After all, it draws off the bazaar periods of the silver age of comics . I'm not suggesting that anyone is actually committing some deviant act to watch the show. But the debate IS in fact that the nostalgia is too irresistible to ignore. I'm only basing my observation off of what fans of the show have said and expressing my philosophical interpretation of the phenomenon. I don't think it's necessary to take things so blasted personally simply because there is a disagreement. Just relax. Explain why you might think I'm off base. I'll try to refrain from hurting any feelings...

Ensanguined Walls
16th Aug 2009, 15:24
But isn't the nostalgia exactly what is so exciting about the show? After all, it draws off the bazaar periods of the silver age of comics . I'm not suggesting that anyone is actually committing some deviant act to watch the show. But the debate IS in fact that the nostalgia is too irresistible to ignore. I'm only basing my observation off of what fans of the show have said and expressing my philosophical interpretation of the phenomenon. I don't think it's necessary to take things so blasted personally simply because there is a disagreement. Just relax. Explain why you might think I'm off base. I'll try to refrain from hurting any feelings...

I was respectfully questioning you about your views, and I even said "in my opinion". If you could kindly show me how my response was "taking things personally", then I would be willing to listen to you. I must also disagree that the show only has nostalgia value, as I recommended several episodes earlier that, in my opinion, rival some of the most fascinating episodes in The Animated Series.

The-Knight-Of-The-Night
16th Aug 2009, 17:58
Personally i dont like Brave and the Bold because i think batman should be less team ups and more Batman on Villain action rather than again and again with someone battling their villains and personally i like the Black and grey suit on Batman but i very much like that The Batman series it draws its animation and plots around Batman Begins :D

AdamWest
17th Aug 2009, 00:07
http://i27.tinypic.com/n3of9l.png
This is the show's Catwoman, she purrfects the OUTRAGEOUSNESS of Batman: the Brave and the Bold. Just watching how her and Batman flirt is simply... OUTRAGEOUS!!

Drazar
17th Aug 2009, 00:09
http://i32.tinypic.com/fz1zd3.jpg
Not as OUTRAGEOUS as Two-Face's OUTRAGEOUS obsession with duality!!!!!