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amadeus_arkham
22nd Jul 2009, 14:47
simple question...or is it?

door noob
22nd Jul 2009, 15:01
Honestly in true reality, Batman.

amadeus_arkham
22nd Jul 2009, 15:09
i just wanna know what people think people at my workplace have told me bruce lee and i raved in defense of batman

Amputechture
22nd Jul 2009, 15:19
Well one is dead and one is >gasp< not real ... but I know what you mean anyways. Batman

Hall E Woode
22nd Jul 2009, 15:20
Batman!

door noob
22nd Jul 2009, 15:29
i just wanna know what people think people at my workplace have told me bruce lee and i raved in defense of batman

Do they know that Bruce Wayne has trained his body to physical perfection and MASTERED ALL 127 major styles of combat, from Aikido to Yaw-Yan.

Hall E Woode
22nd Jul 2009, 15:44
Do they know that Bruce Wayne has trained his body to physical perfection and MASTERED ALL 127 major styles of combat, from Aikido to Yaw-Yan.

You know, I've always wondered about that and the amount of girlfriends he's had... Surely one of them would go, "Whoa, dude, your body is the pinnacle of perfection" and then start to wonder...
:lol:

k1ll1ng j0k3
22nd Jul 2009, 16:00
Wow that is a great question! I love both of them. Bruce Lee developed his own Martial Art and his concept of taking what works best for the individual and eliminating what is not necessary is something that I see Batman doing as well. I have to go with Batman, just because he is a fictitious character and even though we all say that we love him because he is human, we all know that his intelligence and strength go beyond real human capability. But I think that Bruce Lee was and always will be the closest real human being that we have to Batman in the sense of thriving for psychical perfection, discipline and mastery of Martial Arts.

sd921
22nd Jul 2009, 16:20
Wow that is a great question! I love both of them. Bruce Lee developed his own Martial Art and his concept of taking what works best for the individual and eliminating what is not necessary is something that I see Batman doing as well. I have to go with Batman, just because he is a fictitious character and even though we all say that we love him because he is human, we all know that his intelligence and strength go beyond real human capability. But I think that Bruce Lee was and always will be the closest real human being that we have to Batman in the sense of thriving for psychical perfection, discipline and mastery of Martial Arts.

what about chuck norris? :lol:

k1ll1ng j0k3
22nd Jul 2009, 16:33
what about chuck norris? :lol: ahhhh, I think I will back Bruce Lee up on this one lol

batman4747
22nd Jul 2009, 16:46
Bruce Lee he's the best but only a true Bruce lee fan would know that not like these Batman fans out there lol.

Matches Malone
22nd Jul 2009, 16:50
What a joke Batman would crush Bruce Lee blindfolded, one handed and with no legs before he even started to sweat, but only a true Batman fan would know this not like these Bruce Lee fans out there lol

batman4747
22nd Jul 2009, 16:58
What a joke Batman would crush Bruce Lee blindfolded, one handed and with no legs before he even started to sweat, but only a true Batman fan would know this not like these Bruce Lee fans out there lol


:lol: I see what you did there . Just watch a Bruce Lee movie and then you will know what am on talking about.

Pwz41
22nd Jul 2009, 16:59
It takes a lifetime to become a true master of any martial art form, so to say that anyone could master 127 is just ridiculous, but I understand we are talking about a fictitious character, so I’ll relent and chose Batman, duh!

GibsonSGBat
22nd Jul 2009, 16:59
Chuck Norris....Allright Bruce Lee.....

MCREF
22nd Jul 2009, 17:30
Taking the fan loyalty out of the equation, Bruce Lee if it's hand to hand. Batman if it's by any means. Bruce Lee is on a level all his own in martial arts. The guy thrives on pain and he's got absolutely no quit in him. He's got a great balance of power and speed. He'll hit you so hard and so fast the only way you know you've been hit is that big bruise that's getting worse on the side of your head. I don't think Batman could hang with Lee hand to hand. However, if the fight could end by any means then you have to remember how good Batman is at exploiting any angle into his favor. He wouldn't be able to outfight Lee, but he could just as easily slip into the shadows and turn it into his kind of fight very quickly. Although you've got to remember that Batman's utility belt gives him an unfair advantage in any fight.

Vaad
22nd Jul 2009, 17:57
Bruce Lee.... BEACUSE HE IS REAL.

Batman The Trailer Hunter
22nd Jul 2009, 18:02
Chuck beeat Bruce and Bats beat Chuck!


P.S A better question would be Which Bruce is better? Bruce Lee or Bruce Wayne

The Comedian
22nd Jul 2009, 18:04
Since Batman has mastered all types of martial arts I am going with Batman.

Batman The Trailer Hunter
22nd Jul 2009, 18:10
http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=batman&word2=bruce+lee

Batman wins! Heroic Brutality!

Game Weasel
22nd Jul 2009, 18:12
Realistically speaking, Batman should be able to take Bruce Lee... HOWEVER...
Based on what we've actually seen in comic books? I'd give it to Bruce Lee.
Sure stats and bios say Batman's mastered 127 martial arts, but we've never seen him make good use of multiple forms at once, or even perform some of the things we have seen Bruce Lee do.

There are videos of Bruce Lee's 'Wind Punch' a blow that built such kinetic force that it actually didn't need to make contact to deal damage, it just had to come within two inches of the body.
One Enter the Dragon Lee inadvertently broke multiple ribs in a stunt mans chest while throwing what should have been a 'light' punch.
This was a man who, even when he's holding back because it's just a movie shoot, still ended up damaging his sparring partners.

Batman's shown to be an incredible fighter, the one person who routinely bests him hand to hand is Lady Shiva... And she, unlike Batman, has been shown using the wind punch. Alot of the things Bruce Lee did in real life are things they gave to Lady Shiva instead of Batman, suggesting that in over all quality Bruce Lee probably would have a 1-up on the Bat.

The other issue is that Bruce Lee himself once said that one of the reasons he chose to develop a style of his own, incorporating different aspects of other styles, rather than master multiple disciplines is because in truth you can't master multiple disciplines successfully. Most masters of any martial art will say you can master 2 or 3, but no more than that. You can't master more than three forms without what you know about one form throwing off the training you've had in another form. On top of that three forms you can master need to be ones that work well together, where you can flow evenly from one stand to another without having to drastically change body posture or foot work.

So, yes, Batman knows 127 martial arts, but he can't incorporate all of them into a single fighting style. He might incorporate two or three at once. Bruce Lee created and mastered a single style all his own and knows it better than anyone.


For those who think TL;DR let me sum up:

In Fiction Batman could win.
In theory Batman would win.
In reality, I'd put my money on Bruce Lee.

Batman The Trailer Hunter
22nd Jul 2009, 18:21
In Fiction Batman could win.
In theory Batman would win.
In reality, I'd put my money on Bruce Lee.


Nuff said! :thumb:

LemonLoafer
22nd Jul 2009, 18:27
simple question...or is it?

I would pay to see George Clooney Batman vs. Chuck Norris.

k1ll1ng j0k3
22nd Jul 2009, 18:35
Bruce Lee he's the best but only a true Bruce lee fan would know that not like these Batman fans out there lol.
it is great to see that there are some Bruce Lee fans in here! you are a Bruce Lee and a Batman fan? then you are my new best friend! lol

door noob
22nd Jul 2009, 18:47
Realistically speaking, Batman should be able to take Bruce Lee... HOWEVER...
Based on what we've actually seen in comic books? I'd give it to Bruce Lee.
Sure stats and bios say Batman's mastered 127 martial arts, but we've never seen him make good use of multiple forms at once, or even perform some of the things we have seen Bruce Lee do.



There is one loop hole in your theory right there, the artists, movie directors and what not are not actual martial artist that know a whole lot about martial art's thus eliminating the posibility the incorporate all styles into the comic book, because frankly it would be to hard for anybody. So in other word's if Batman would write and direct his own movie's, which is not possible at all, then we would see that.

daklog
22nd Jul 2009, 19:17
why is everyoen getting the notion that chuck beat bruce?? chuck was a usa karate champion, bruce beat his ass, he beat his ass so bad in fact that chuck then decided to become his pupil, they became friends, and then bruce used him in a movie.

Jables_Kage
22nd Jul 2009, 19:39
the batman, he whoops bruce lee! besides BL is dead and batman is real... cuz i am the batman i kick ass! :D

CaptainMcMulla
22nd Jul 2009, 20:19
"I'm Batman"

Velderik
22nd Jul 2009, 21:37
Batman

MCREF
22nd Jul 2009, 21:57
There is one loop hole in your theory right there, the artists, movie directors and what not are not actual martial artist that know a whole lot about martial art's thus eliminating the posibility the incorporate all styles into the comic book, because frankly it would be to hard for anybody. So in other word's if Batman would write and direct his own movie's, which is not possible at all, then we would see that.

There's also a loop hole in your theory as well. It's a competition based on the source material. You can't say Batman's potential isn't being met because the comics haven't been meeting them. The comics are what define him. Everything about Batman has been established and fleshed out on the comics. You're letting your ideals of the character get in the way of looking at it black and white. Too much of what you would like him to be and not enough of what he really is. Sorry but I really have to disagree with you on this one.

seifullaah73
22nd Jul 2009, 23:16
There is one loop hole in your theory right there, the artists, movie directors and what not are not actual martial artist that know a whole lot about martial art's thus eliminating the posibility the incorporate all styles into the comic book, because frankly it would be to hard for anybody. So in other word's if Batman would write and direct his own movie's, which is not possible at all, then we would see that.

Well they have something known as choreography sammo hung choreographs alot of martial arts movies that they are able to perform those moves i don't know how batman should be different. They would research into things they didn't know about to get a better understanding.

but as bruce lee is real and batman is a fantasized hero but not possessing superhuman abilities i would think batman would win as they have made him perfect in everyform when they say he has mastered those martial arts moves since he is not real he HAS mastered that move it perform it at his own will with acuracy or whatever the creators of batman made him to be.
Bruce lee was not able to master many moves.
so Batman would win. even though i like bruce lee but he is going against someone who is not real and therefore can do everything perfectly he has been attributed to.

Batfan22
23rd Jul 2009, 00:07
Bruce lee ... sorry batman

ambush king
23rd Jul 2009, 00:40
Broke back cant fight comic strip

no way.

door noob
23rd Jul 2009, 00:51
Well they have something known as choreography sammo hung choreographs alot of martial arts movies that they are able to perform those moves i don't know how batman should be different. They would research into things they didn't know about to get a better understanding.

Sorry I didin't mean movies as much as comic book's since the artist's just use their own style which is not necesarly accurate, and also choreographers only ussually have the understanding of a few martial art not all of them so it's hard to work with several martial artist always thinking their way is right, but ya if they try hard they could, but they didin't yet.

arOnex20
23rd Jul 2009, 01:13
Bruce









Lee. :cool:

Mister Mxyzptlk
23rd Jul 2009, 01:54
Undoubtedly Batman. As one writer put it, the feats that Batman has accomplished would, in our world, be even beyond the best athletes.

amadeus_arkham
23rd Jul 2009, 02:02
wow this is awesome thanks for all the replies! to me these two are my ultimate role models you cant go wrong with either..The Dragon VS. The Bat ultimate clash of the titans. By the way anyone remember the Adam West Batman on the Green Hornet way back?

thedarknight2016
23rd Jul 2009, 05:31
You know, I've always wondered about that and the amount of girlfriends he's had... Surely one of them would go, "Whoa, dude, your body is the pinnacle of perfection" and then start to wonder...
:lol:

LOL you made my day

Bat_Fan
23rd Jul 2009, 06:26
MASTERED ALL 127 major styles of combat, from Aikido to Yaw-Yan.

i think there are more than 127 and he hasn't mastered them all, he has learned and trained in them. i think bruce has only mastered 3 or 6, one of those, and some say that hes actually learned a lot that its practically impossible to name them all. but as i said not all of them that would be impossible even for batman. and he probably would win im mean he learnt alot and trained his body to the peak of physical perfection and other things that i cant be bothered explaining:D

Mister Mxyzptlk
23rd Jul 2009, 07:21
A few books and entries did specifically say that he mastered all forms of martial arts. I chalk it up as one of those things people weren't thinking about when they wrote it, only to have it stick. Best not to put too much thought in how it's possible.

Bat_Fan
23rd Jul 2009, 08:10
its a bit stupid if he's mastered all of them. if bruce did learn evry martial art and mastered he should be able to beat lady shiva or karate kid. who ever those writers were i don't think they were thinking clearly. batman is still human, it would impossible for him to master every single martial art. i don't even care if that was in a book thats just stupid, who ever those writers were there a bit koo koo :D

but on the bright side if thats true that he's mastered it all than batman wins. sweet:D

LoboUDL
23rd Jul 2009, 14:28
They did a Batman vs. Bruce Lee kind of in...hmmm I think it's called Batman: The Abduction. The guy that looks like Bruce Lee before publication, had to have a tatoo of a dragon put on his chest so that DC wouldn't get in trouble for it. At least that's pretty much what Mr. Norm Breyfogle told us a a couple years ago on his boards. But anywho...it went from one Bruce Lee to where he was fighting like 5 or 10 of them...I'm not sure of the exact amount or the outcome because I probably read that thing over 10 yrs ago! ;>

VXR
23rd Jul 2009, 14:41
its a bit stupid if he's mastered all of them. if bruce did learn evry martial art and mastered he should be able to beat lady shiva or karate kid.

when did 'ralph macchio' pick a fight with batman ?
did he try that lame crane kick move ? :scratch:

k1ll1ng j0k3
23rd Jul 2009, 14:49
The great problem here is that everyone says that Batman masters 127 Martial Arts. That concept is not only impossible, it is also divisive and mistaken. That is why Bruce Lee was such a prolific Martial Artist, because he did not divide Martial Arts into styles and forms, he recognize that trying to master one or several martial arts was a limitation. He said “use no way as a way, use no limitation as a limitation” You can even see how limited this concept of mastering martial arts without questioning them is in the Batman Begins movie. When Bruce goes to train with Ra’s Al Ghul and he keeps changing styles that he mastered he still gets his ass kicked. In that sense Bruce Lee has an advantage because he realized that Martial Arts are like philosophy, you cannot follow them blindly, you have to develop them a create your own style, whatever works best for you as an individual.

VXR
23rd Jul 2009, 14:52
very nice student.... you get a golden bananna sticker

;)

k1ll1ng j0k3
23rd Jul 2009, 15:31
very nice student.... you get a golden bananna sticker

;)

lol, thank you! that means so much to me! :D

Gary_Bailey
23rd Jul 2009, 15:39
Bruce Lee hands down

its the real life Batman

Mister Mxyzptlk
23rd Jul 2009, 17:31
its a bit stupid if he's mastered all of them. if bruce did learn evry martial art and mastered he should be able to beat lady shiva or karate kid. who ever those writers were i don't think they were thinking clearly. batman is still human, it would impossible for him to master every single martial art. i don't even care if that was in a book thats just stupid, who ever those writers were there a bit koo koo :D

but on the bright side if thats true that he's mastered it all than batman wins. sweet:D


To be fair, Shiva might just be more proficient with fighting while Karate Kid has training from fighting styles outside the planet. Plus I think Dennis O'Neil wrote him mastering a hundred and twenty-seven martial arts, and if anyone gets a free past, it's him. :P

I also liked Greg Rucka's take in it- he's a superb martial artist, but he's not the best(ranked 1-B by Checkmate). However, his combat skills were at maxed because of his willingness to do what he needed to win, including cheat.

Game Weasel
23rd Jul 2009, 19:21
To be fair, Shiva might just be more proficient with fighting while Karate Kid has training from fighting styles outside the planet. Plus I think Dennis O'Neil wrote him mastering a hundred and twenty-seven martial arts, and if anyone gets a free past, it's him. :P

I also liked Greg Rucka's take in it- he's a superb martial artist, but he's not the best(ranked 1-B by Checkmate). However, his combat skills were at maxed because of his willingness to do what he needed to win, including cheat.

A very good point in all regards! I too loved Rucka's take on it, I always thought the whole 127 martial arts mastered thing was dodgy, but seeing him ranked as a top tier, not because of how much hew knows but rather because of how he makes use of it, really seemed solid to me. It spoke of Batman's caliber, he may not be the best at something, but he can BEAT the best because he's willing to do or thinks of how to do things they simply won't.

I'm also amused to realize that, again, this comes back to Lady Shiva because when he was training with her she was constantly berating him for not exploiting weaknesses and not thinking outside the box.
When you think on it, a lot of what Batman uses in combat really comes down to being what she taught him to do, think outside the box, anticipate and react ahead of time, and do whatever it takes to win, even if it seems dishonorable to do so.

Mister Mxyzptlk
23rd Jul 2009, 20:07
Luckily, they don't bring up the 127 thing too often at all. Of course simplifying it as "mastered all major martial arts" isn't any better, but it seems far less ridiculous without a number accompanying it.

While we're at it, here's a nifty random fact-

At least three of DC's top ten best fighters are female, while two of the top five most intelligent humans are African American. Hooray for diversity.

GenericAmerican
23rd Jul 2009, 23:58
So what about the Joker vs Bruce Lee?

Game Weasel
24th Jul 2009, 01:21
So what about the Joker vs Bruce Lee?

Considering how fast Batman's taken down the joker in the past, I don't think Lee would have any more challenge. The only trick would be avoiding some of the joker's trap-gadgets, which I don't think would be that difficult for someone who moves as fast as Lee could.
Like Batsy, Lee was known for being able to One Hit KO. Assuming they meet un the DCU, Lee would likely have read about the Joker in papers and know what he's capable of, so I'd imagine he'd be going for that one hit from the get go.

That said if the Joker does hit him with something like the acidic flower I doubt Bruce would get the chance to finish the fight.

Enop80
24th Jul 2009, 01:23
Bruce Lee.

Bat_Fan
24th Jul 2009, 10:05
Luckily, they don't bring up the 127 thing too often at all. Of course simplifying it as "mastered all major martial arts" isn't any better, but it seems far less ridiculous without a number accompanying it.

While we're at it, here's a nifty random fact-

At least three of DC's top ten best fighters are female, while two of the top five most intelligent humans are African American. Hooray for diversity.

can u name the top five if u dont mind? im just wondering

Black sabbith102
24th Jul 2009, 10:36
This is much more difficult a question than one would see. They both have achieved perfection in hand to hand combat and they are both pretty intelligent. Batman is much stronger than Bruce Lee though. I'm gonna have to go with Batman.

Mister Mxyzptlk
24th Jul 2009, 11:14
can u name the top five if u dont mind? im just wondering

They don't have a specific order, but I'd put Lady Shiva, Connor Hawke, Cassandra Cain III, Batman, Black Canary II, Bronze Tiger, Richard Dragon somewhere in the top seven. Those are the characters that's been around for some time; new guys like Constantine Drakon or amped up like Deathstroke and Zeiss aren't on my list.

As for Bruce against Joker...let's put it this way, in a far fight, I think anyone of us here can have a chance at beating the Joker. He's been said to be faster and stronger than he looks, but he's not a fighter.

Of course, "fair fight" and "Joker" go together as much as "Kanye West" and "humility". Electric hand buzzer, hidden gun, acidic flower, poisonous toxins...the list goes on. Always hard to count the variables with that guy.

Bat_Fan
24th Jul 2009, 18:22
They don't have a specific order, but I'd put Lady Shiva, Connor Hawke, Cassandra Cain III, Batman, Black Canary II, Bronze Tiger, Richard Dragon somewhere in the top seven. Those are the characters that's been around for some time; new guys like Constantine Drakon or amped up like Deathstroke and Zeiss aren't on my list.





that makes sense although i don't think id put Connor second. id think i would put, but im not really sure, val armorr lady Shiva, Cassandra Cain, batman, Connor hawke, Richard dragon, bronze tiger.

CodeBlack
25th Jul 2009, 05:18
They don't have a specific order, but I'd put Lady Shiva, Connor Hawke, Cassandra Cain III, Batman, Black Canary II, Bronze Tiger, Richard Dragon somewhere in the top seven. Those are the characters that's been around for some time; new guys like Constantine Drakon or amped up like Deathstroke and Zeiss aren't on my list.


The Top Five martial artists in DC are, in order (I think),

1. Richard Dragon
2. Bronze Tiger
3. Cassandra Cain *
4. Bats
5. Lady Shiva

* Batman has himself noted that, although she isn't as learned in the other strategic/deductive skills that Batman has, Cassandra is a much more skilled martial artist than he is.

As for the most intelligent humans in DC comics, I know Bats, Luthor and Mr. Terrific are up there, but I don't know the rest.

Mister Mxyzptlk
25th Jul 2009, 05:22
Like I said, it was in no specific order. I think the hierarchy of top combatants can change at any given time, so finding a definitive placement for all of them would be pointless.

I also skipped out on Val as fitting under the 'amped' category.

Mister Mxyzptlk
25th Jul 2009, 05:25
Like I said, it was in no specific order. I think the hierarchy of top combatants can change at any given time, so finding a definitive placement for all of them would be pointless.

I also skipped out on Val as fitting under the 'amped' category.

Bat_Fan
25th Jul 2009, 13:31
Like I said, it was in no specific order. I think the hierarchy of top combatants can change at any given time, so finding a definitive placement for all of them would be pointless.

I also skipped out on Val as fitting under the 'amped' category.


i don't really see how val is amped just take off his flight ring and he is more human than bruce. really val doesnt need a flight ring to beat bruce. he's learned and mastered his share of styles, and i must say its actually quite a big share:D

Game Weasel
25th Jul 2009, 13:53
As Mxyzptlk said, there's never been a confirmed order
Execept the general top through. In recent years (Hush, a few of the BoPs, WarGames, etc.) the list has generally put Cassandra Cain, Richard Dragon, and Lady Shiva as the top three martial artists.
Past DC writers, editors, and source guides have all said that, until Cassandra came along, Shiva was the top MAer with Richard Dragon being a very close (I.E. On a good day he can beat her) second.

Other than those three, the general list of DCU's top 10 Martial Artists varies considerably based on who's listing it, what stories they've read, and how much bias they have. :p
Personally I've always figured, on a good day most of them can beat each other, it just depends on who is at the top of their game that day; not including all the variables that can happen in a fight.


It is also important to note that the 'True List' is said to be only hand-to-hand fighters, no one who has the advantage of any super powers.
For example, Wonder Woman's one of the best hand to hand fighters in the DCU, she even has the advantage of knowing fighting styles that haven't been used in 100s of years (traditional greek wrestling/grappling and spartan hand-to-hand), but because of her strength level she's not a viable candidate for considertion in the list because skill doesn't really apply to somebody that can turn bones to dust in one punch.
In the same vein that rules out people like Killer Croc, who's medical condition has altered his body muscle to make him freakishly strong, beyond human norms.

The group of characters I see listed most frequently are:
#1. Cassandra Cain #2. Lady Shiva #3. Richard Dragon and the rest in no particular order usually are Batman, Val Armorr, Death Stroke, Black Canary, Bronze Tiger, Connor Hawke, and David Cain; Cassie's father.

Mister Mxyzptlk
25th Jul 2009, 15:44
And even that old order wasn't too stable. Dragon, in his older series, took Shiva down with relative ease. Then came Dixon's disappointing relaunch of Richard Dragon which had him looking less impressive than he was before, though I guess I still place him in the top three for nostalgic reasons.


Personally I've always figured, on a good day most of them can beat each other, it just depends on who is at the top of their game that day; not including all the variables that can happen in a fight.

Exactly.


i don't really see how val is amped just take off his flight ring and he is more human than bruce. really val doesnt need a flight ring to beat bruce. he's learned and mastered his share of styles, and i must say its actually quite a big share:D

More for the reasons that humans were slightly different at that time period depending on what history you go by. I don't know if he's physically all too different, but human intelligence by that time has increased dramatically, which could have helped with his training. I also think the addition of alien martial arts could be another reason to leave him out, which is also why Batman from the 852nd century is excluded from my list even after he knocked Bruce out in a single panel using even more exotic techniques than Val's shown recently.

TheBat
25th Jul 2009, 17:51
Bruce lee is Batman so Bruce wayne is just a mask. Bruce lee Is Batman in real Life