Results 1 to 11 of 11

Thread: Am I the only one who see's this?

  1. #1

    Thumbs Down Am I the only one who see's this?

    Huge fan of the LoK series.

    But defiance made me so MAD. Just, insanely furious. Not because of the gameplay, or the story, I LOVED the story.
    But what the actual Raziel, since when do you hold the hilt of a sword?! It's supposed to be a body-less ethereal stream running down your arm. Why have you done this?

    This is not the wraith blade I fell for, you are not my true love, not anymore.

    I just had to rant and this has got to be the one place in the world someone may actually agree with me, or if not, at least they know what I'm talking about.

    *Moderator edit*
    Last edited by The_Hylden; 1st Feb 2015 at 18:57. Reason: Removed offensive term

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Maryland, USA
    Posts
    7,648
    First, welcome the the forum, Derenger21. Second, please be mindful of the language you use here. A good rule of thumb is if it's not terminology you'd find in the series, it's probably not appropriate here. Sexual innuendo and such, there's no need for that.

    Without out of the way, Defiance's wraith blade was designed to finally behave like an actual sword. They wanted to show Raziel with an actual sword style using it, which only made sense if he was holding it like a sword. Plus, the intent of the wraith blade was always that it had taken the shape of the physical Reaver. In Soul Reaver 1, when it's first released from the corporeal sword, it looks like this:



    Raziel reaches out to grab the handle. It actually makes more sense for it to retain the shape even when attached to Raziel. It should behave like what it took the shape of.

    What I didn't personally like about the look was that most times the wraith blade in Defiance was far too wide and bright. The shape of it, especially when charged, wound up looking anything but a blade and more like a large snow-cone, or glowing stick of cotton candy that he was holding. When I did the rextexturing of the various wraith blades for Defiance seen in the mod thread, I toned down the width and brightness of all of that considerably. But the logic of it, due to them finally having enough polygons in Defiance to do so, showing that it is a sword that he can use like one, that much made more sense than just him waving his hand at people and swiping them haphazardly. Raziel was a trained elite warrior who would instinctively want to use a sword as a sword, so this made more sense. As much sense as it can, given we're talking about an ethereal weapon that doesn't have any weight, or actual physical part to grab onto. But Raziel's hand probably could feel the force of the energy it was holding, I suppose, rather like the wraith blade was able to manipulate his hand in Soul Reaver 2 to do things.

  3. #3
    Wasn't the wide part just supposed to be just some swirling energy around the blade itself. Like for the fire reaver, it would a blade shape at the core and flames emmited from that. For the Material/Spectral Reavers, it would be some sort of ghostly energy and for the elements it would just be emmissions of whatever other element it was imbued with.

    I know it's part of the mesh, because you were able to retexture it, but the developers wouldn't have intended the implementation to be taken into account, only the final look. You mentioned that the dark reaver had an extra texture for the core part. That and the hilt are the parts I imagine to behave anything like 'solid'.
    "If events are matched closely enough to course, they have a way of restructuring themselves to familiar outcomes." ~ Scorpius, Farscape

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Heathrow, London
    Posts
    756
    I would probably add here that some early SR1 developmental materials also presented the Wraith blade used by Raziel as a ghostly version of the Soul Reaver complete with hilt etc. It was supposed to look that way but the technology of the time couldn't handle it. Defiance simply returned it to its originally intended design - with a few minor touches as mentioned by the guys above
    http://www.thelostworlds.net/SR1/The...d_Armoury.html
    signature image
    Join us and help write the history of Nosgoth at the Legacy of Kain Wiki encyclopedia

  5. #5
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Maryland, USA
    Posts
    7,648
    Vampmaster, the blade seems to have an extra polygon blade in addition to the third center texture to outline it for the Dark Reaver. I haven't checked all of the other blades, but the normal Reaver just has a twisting spiral of two polygon planes for the Reaver blade and a full model of the skull and wings.

    Normal Reaver blade:



    Dark Reaver:


    (click image to enlarge)

    You can see the center of the Dark Reaver has an additional polygon blade added. The texture outlines it right through the skull to his palm. That texture which outlines the blade is only a small dark plum square, 8x8 pixels.


    For the regular spiraling plane textures, you have one solid texture and then one that's similar but simply broken up with an alpha pattern. It gives the illusion of energy fluctuations, but they both just flow over each other. the twisting of the planes onto themselves is what they were trying to use to show a central beam, but it breaks down sometimes. The default blade winds up looking too wide because of this, and the alpha pattern was really sharp and pixely, which wasn't doing the Reavers any favors.


    (click image to enlarge)


    What I did was center the main texture's energy to show more of a central beam in each one and with the second texture, I made it a specific feel of the wider energy emanating from the individual Reavers in look. I figured out that the textures didn't need any alpha at all, since the darker the color used the less it showed up on its own anyway. This is also the reason why the "Kain Reaver" could not be made with any really dark, dark colors, or black.


    (click image to enlarge)

    This gets the Reaver to look far closer to how it usually looks in the promotional art. Still a bit of a wave to it, but not so wide and distorted.

    Also, when the Reaver is charged up fully, they add on top of its textures the same energy texture used on other things, like when things are set on fire, the energy emitting from the Hylden's eyes, etc. That texture was way too much and winds up washing out everything. The giant snow-cone effect I mentioned. When I modded the textures I significantly toned that down.

  6. #6
    My point was that the person who implemented the blade wouldn't have expected anyone to load the mesh into a viewer to make deductions about how it functioned from a story perspective. As long as the resulting appearance in game was as intended, that's his/her job done. I was just using the Dark Reaver as an example to describe what in my opinion would be the 'solid' part. With the other reavers, the core would be the same colour as the surrounding energy emissions and therefore be obscured by them. So there wouldn't be much point in adding the extra polygons for the parts no one would see.
    "If events are matched closely enough to course, they have a way of restructuring themselves to familiar outcomes." ~ Scorpius, Farscape

  7. #7
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Maryland, USA
    Posts
    7,648
    I am not sure that was what I was saying. First, I never had the Reaver mesh when I originally retextured the blade, nor was that how I concluded anything about it. What I was saying was that the Reavers always looked wrong -- the blade is too wide, the energy feels all over the place, and for some of them the colors and details are wrong to me. So, simply from viewing the final product in the game that was enough to say ok, this needs to change if I'm modding things. The Dark Reaver especially always looked very bad. The cutscene when Raziel gets it, how stiff it looks and the animation just highlights that it's wrong. It feels like he's holding a dark, bent cardboard tube with some plum purple energy floating around it...

    I felt my way through what worked and what didn't with only the textures at the time and viewing how it looked in the game from there. I also didn't know until before just posting this that the core of the Dark Reaver was a separate blade shaft. It makes sense not to have those extra polygons for the rest of the Reavers, yes.

    Anyway, no matter their intent, I don't think the base Reaver works. The problem isn't that it's a sword now which Raziel can hold with the shape of the Reaver in mind; the problem to me is that it was too wide in shape and not well defined as the energy sword it was supposed to be. When charged, it looks way over-the-top, as did many of the effects in Defiance. Raziel and Kain having large flashes when they're hit is another for instance.

  8. #8
    I was just trying to say that knowing how the blade was made, I (in my first reply) was trying to clarify my reasoning so that you were aware I'd taken the mesh shape into account. In your reply, you explained how the mesh was made, when my original point was my opinion of why it's creator implemented it that way.

    At the most, I was just trying to say that I don't think the person who make it was going tor the 'giant snow-code' look.
    "If events are matched closely enough to course, they have a way of restructuring themselves to familiar outcomes." ~ Scorpius, Farscape

  9. #9
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Maryland, USA
    Posts
    7,648
    It feels like we're doing a play-by-play of some big sports game

    Yes, well regardless of the intent of what they wanted, the end result to me looked to be too much. Many of those effects seemed to have been amped up too much, and that's how I felt when I first played the PS2 version 10+ years ago now.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by The_Hylden View Post
    What I did was center the main texture's energy to show more of a central beam in each one and with the second texture, I made it a specific feel of the wider energy emanating from the individual Reavers in look. I figured out that the textures didn't need any alpha at all, since the darker the color used the less it showed up on its own anyway. This is also the reason why the "Kain Reaver" could not be made with any really dark, dark colors, or black.
    BTW, SR1 had the same problem. On the PC version, the reaver core used additive blending, meaning the darker I made it, the fainter it became. I eventually found out how to stitch that off, but then I could only get solid colours with no transparency at all. That's why my fix for the Kain Reaver never looked quite right. I tried comparing the files against the PS1 version, but they were identical, so I've no idea what it did differently.
    "If events are matched closely enough to course, they have a way of restructuring themselves to familiar outcomes." ~ Scorpius, Farscape

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Scotland
    Posts
    532
    Have to admit I prefer the wraith blade looking like the physical Soul Reaver in shape.
    signature image

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •