Thread: Running Away: A Contradiction in the game's theme, or was it intentional ?...

Running Away: A Contradiction in the game's theme, or was it intentional ?...

  1. #1

    Exclamation Running Away: A Contradiction in the game's theme, or was it intentional ?...

    (Alright , it seems that i'm just about the only one here unhinged enough to bring up long page discussions in this forum , and though most of them discussions are labelled as nonsensical i think it is better than what some you folks are doing , namely just sit around and complain that the forum is dead ...)

    (then again after the sixteenth months we've spent discussing Dog Days , before and after its release , it's true it's hard to find any other substantial element to talk about ...)

    (which is why i'm throwing you a fire on a pile of bones here , should occupy you all for a week until i come back again , hopefully none of you have started cutting yourselves ...)

    Alright , we've talked about Dog Days , fans argued amongst themselves on their interpretation of the game (which i think it's pretty impressive considering that this is , well , not a kind of game that would seem to evoke multiple 'interpretations') ...
    So i'm pleased with all this (hell , any game that can have people argue about it Is impressive) ... but then , a few days ago i suddenly thought about the NSFW level , and all of a sudden it was Eureka ! for i had understood what was the one element that always made me feel Dog Days to be 'awkward' in its design ... ... well before you all start drooling for no reason again , watch this old video again , i hope you all remember it ...



    That was the Very First footage of any kind we've seen of Dog Days ...
    And what do we see ? Lynch and Kane , apparently naked , running away from some people (that we never see) shooting at them , Lynch then falls , and gets bitten violently by a dog that came out of nowhere , Kane comes and help , and they both start running away again ...

    Now , did the game's NSFW level played anything like that ? ...
    I mean , apart from the fact that Lynch and Kane were violently cut up (i mean damn i didn't knew a cutter could make scars so deep) and that they spent the rest of the level naked (despite Bevacur's advice of profound wisdom that they should have took the clothes in the washing machine right next to bathroom) ... what do Lynch and Kane do ? they just shoot their way out ... exactly like the rest of the game ...

    So ... even at their most vulnerable state ... they just keep on going ...
    It's like they want to run away from everyone but they keep end up killing everyone , and alright , it makes sense if you want to look at in a ironical fashion in which it just keep on emphasizing on the theme that the duo will Always end up resolving all their issues with shootouts ... but common , look at that teaser video again , then look back at the game , and wait , how about this one ? ...



    Look specifically at what Kane does ...
    He is outnumbered , he realizes that , so what does he do ? he runs away ...
    His men died and his bullet ran out ? what does he do ? scavange for ammo ? nope , he runs away ...

    Running Away ... when exactly do you do that in the game ? ...

    Isn't that what these two teasers shows us ? that the duo are vulnerable and outnumbered ? that they can't soak up bullets like other video game characters ? that they are supposedly more 'real' ? that they know when to run the away when you've got a legion of crazed mob after you ? ...

    And isn't that what the duo were supposed to be doing during these two days in Shanghai ? wasn't it the whole premise to this game ? to just get away from all this madness with the folks and dogs running after you , and not actually bring the fight onward ? ...

    Now i don't know about you , but to me this sense of urgency is severly lacking in the game's design ...
    Indeed , with the exception of the game's very last section , the cops/gangsters/soldiers/dogs are Always in front of your path , and it's not like each level were mini-sandboxes where the player can choose between multiple routes to escape the area , no , it's all downright linear , you don't have the option to flee from the crazed mob , you Have to kill them all , doesn't matter if you're blood soaked naked , doesn't matter if you're heavily outnumbered , doesn't matter if you run out of ammo , there is no turning back , hell there is no fighting back either , it's always pushing onward despite the odds , there is no choice for the duo but just plow their way through ...

    Ah , but perhaps That was the point ? that they have 'no choice' ? that there is 'no running away' from the storm you've done in your life ? that you have to endure all the consequences that society throws at you ? ...
    Or is it just some poor excuse of using the philosophical narration in order to justify/give meaning to the game's end result ? ...

    No but really , you get more the impression that it is Lynch and Kane who are chasing after everyone , while it should be the other way around ...
    I mean no wonder you end up killing a thousand people , Lynch and Kane are like two bad drivers who drives their dump trucks into a mall instead of parking it in the parking lot , and then complains about the amazing number of people who are thrown on their windshield ...
    Alright , i see that this kind of stupidity can be related to the characters quite easily ... but it still seems more like a excuse than a real justification ...


    So , what do you think about it ? ...
    (Yes i'm talking to the three lads who are reading this very line ...)
    Because on one hand i remember hearing that statement from IO Interactive where they said that Dog Days is exactly as they envisioned it ...
    But on the other hand i'm seeing what seems to be a huge contradiction in between what the game was showned off to be , and what it turns out to be ...

    Not that the game was bad , far from it (at least for me) ... but it would have been a whole lot more interesting had the theme of living in the constant pressure of vulnerability and running away from everyone being used in the gameplay and not just in the story and dialogs , because it just creates a odd contradiction ... Why would Lynch and Kane be so damn afraid of Shangsi and friends if they mowed down his army in the same manner they did for the back alley gangsters ? why did the trailers showed something that was the complete opposite of the game's mentality ? ...

    Oh well , maybe the missed opportunity , this idea of being vulnerable will finally be implemented for Kane & Lynch III ... it is coming , right ? ...

    (yes i've heard of the layoffs as well as IO's odd way of denying Hitman V's existence) ...

    (and yes , no useless polls , instead we have free muffins for those who actually made it this far !) ...
    Hi, i'm the one who makes Wall of Text Armadas in a unhinged regular fashion.
    If you remember me, best start taking your pills again.

  2. #2
    Well it would have been a very different game if they would have focused on that aspect more, there probably wouldn't even be any coverbased shooting. But the main thing is it would have been hard to pull off. I mean cover based shooters are safe.
    Kane and lynch 1 already had that so they wanted to build on that instead of doing something completely different.
    And just imagine how short the game would have been when they'd be running away all the time, it would have been mirrors edge all over again! (oh wait k&l2 actually already is as short as mirrors edge, soo yeah it might have ended up even shorter..)

    And saying the gameplay/theme contradiction was intentional is just artsy retardation, like reading all sorts of into a painting that the artist himself didn't actually think of.
    But actually the gameplay isn't really that contradicting, sure there could have been something much more fitting but overall the game manages to have a pretty hectic feel and therefore it doesn't really seem that much out of place. There is still that weird scenario where when you killed every enemy in the area you can just run around and enjoy the scenery but I hate infinitely respawning enemies so I don't know how they could have done that any better...

  3. #3
    Yeah, I noticed this too, but the main issue in this very story driven games is that it really depends on tuning in the developers frequency and play it like they would've.

    Wich is why most "didn't get it", wich I know sounds as douchy as it can be, but it's quite true. It's something that clicks for you or it doesn't, and while I agree that enemies do spawn always in front of you, you don't have to kill them all to just go foward; but yeah, it's expected from you...

    Anyway, the launch trailer is closer to what you actually get to play.

    ps: before the release we were thinking of a time limit thing, to get you to keep on running instead of planning the fight. I still think that would've been a nice thing.

  4. #4

    Lightbulb

    Originally Posted by TheMoD
    Well it would have been a very different game if they would have focused on that aspect more, there probably wouldn't even be any coverbased shooting. But the main thing is it would have been hard to pull off. I mean cover based shooters are safe.
    Yeah well most people complained specifically on this matter , that it didn't tried to do something different gameplay wise ...

    IO could have tried ... for at least a couple of sections in the game , maybe not the whole game , but just a few would do for a start ...

    Originally Posted by TheMoD
    And just imagine how short the game would have been when they'd be running away all the time, it would have been mirrors edge all over again! (oh wait k&l2 actually already is as short as mirrors edge, soo yeah it might have ended up even shorter..)
    Depends of course how they would have made it , had each chapter of the game been a mini-sandbox map it would mean multiple ways of proceeding from point A to B , and so , more replay values , and the average people might at least play the campaign more than once ...

    Originally Posted by TheMoD
    And saying the gameplay/theme contradiction was intentional is just artsy retardation, like reading all sorts of into a painting that the artist himself didn't actually think of.
    I guess that's what we've always been doing here ...

    So far so good , right ? ...

    Originally Posted by TheMoD
    But actually the gameplay isn't really that contradicting, sure there could have been something much more fitting but overall the game manages to have a pretty hectic feel and therefore it doesn't really seem that much out of place. There is still that weird scenario where when you killed every enemy in the area you can just run around and enjoy the scenery but I hate infinitely respawning enemies so I don't know how they could have done that any better...
    For starters they should stop thinking that infinite enemy spawn In Front of the player does not make the game challenging , but it's rather how cunning and tricky the enemy A.I. are that would make the firefights more interesting ...

    In video games the enemy A.I. have no concerns for their own life ...
    Sure , they see a grenade , they jump on the side , but that's because they've been programmed to do , same as they've been programmed to hold their grounds and wait for the player to kill them all ...
    So what i'm asking is something different , something that is even borderline revolutionary ... and i doubt IO's going to be the ones who will be the first of this industry to improve the A.I. greatly ...

    So ... yeah ...

    They should have made Dog Days longer ...
    Or at least make two campaigns , each follows one of the two endings from Dead Men ... each may still only last four five hours , but hey , there'll be two of them at least ! ...

    Originally Posted by UhUh
    Yeah, I noticed this too, but the main issue in this very story driven games is that it really depends on tuning in the developers frequency and play it like they would've.

    Wich is why most "didn't get it", wich I know sounds as douchy as it can be, but it's quite true. It's something that clicks for you or it doesn't, and while I agree that enemies do spawn always in front of you, you don't have to kill them all to just go foward; but yeah, it's expected from you...
    Alright ... true , very true ...
    In fact it's even nice to see games that requires the players to tune in on the developers frequency , as you've nicely put it ...
    But in that case that also means that IO need not to even give a damn anymore about what the reviewers think , as in the end most of them 'simply won't get it' ...
    And while that sounds nice and dandy , let's just hope this isn't going to create a sense of arrogance in their team spirit , otherwise we'll have another Night M. Shyamalan on our hands , and while i like the chap , i've seen that most people don't ...

    So ... to be continued i suppose ...

    Originally Posted by UhUh
    ps: before the release we were thinking of a time limit thing, to get you to keep on running instead of planning the fight. I still think that would've been a nice thing.
    We've actually had alot of nice ideas that we've spilled all over the forum , but like i said , unfortunately none of us knows how to use a computer without blowing it up , so those ideas are going to rot in this forum ...

    It's either that or someone comes and steals them ...
    Make use of our ideas , but stealing them nonetheless ... i don't know ...

    Anywya , where's the third man ? ...
    Hi, i'm the one who makes Wall of Text Armadas in a unhinged regular fashion.
    If you remember me, best start taking your pills again.

  5. #5
    Join Date
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    The 3rd man...won't be comming back so i am replacing him.
    Gingers always want to become cops so they can abuse others just like they were abused themselves - Ohitspatty speaking the cold, dark truth.

  6. #6

    Thumbs Down

    But you're not a man , what kind of a replacement is this ? ...
    Hi, i'm the one who makes Wall of Text Armadas in a unhinged regular fashion.
    If you remember me, best start taking your pills again.

  7. #7
    Give the kid a chance, Grievous. Otherwise he'll be the laughingstock when he joins "the force"
    "You see it too? For me, it's always like this..."
    (Angela Orosco - Silent Hill 2)

  8. #8
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    Originally Posted by gnrGrievous
    But you're not a man , what kind of a replacement is this ? ...
    Correct, i am actually a evil bean from another dimension that wants to enslave the Human race and make every one his sex slave.
    Gingers always want to become cops so they can abuse others just like they were abused themselves - Ohitspatty speaking the cold, dark truth.

  9. #9

    Thumbs Up

    Originally Posted by JackGordon
    Give the kid a chance, Grievous. Otherwise he'll be the laughingstock when he joins "the force"
    Nah man , he'll scream for blood and there'll be peace on earth ...
    Just look at Kratos , that's what he did , and it worked ...


    Originally Posted by Bevacur
    Correct, i am actually a evil bean from another dimension that wants to enslave the Human race and make every one his sex slave.
    And then Slash calls Me a pedophile ...
    Why wasn't i in the alternate dimension of this world ? the one where logic , sixteen hour games , computer that doesn't blow up , people aren't stupid , and endless joy and beauty rules ... why oh why ...
    Hi, i'm the one who makes Wall of Text Armadas in a unhinged regular fashion.
    If you remember me, best start taking your pills again.

  10. #10
    I think you may be readin' too much into it, Grievous.
    ~The Emu hath landed~

  11. #11

    Arrow

    To quote our dear god , Mister Lynch ...
    "Well i don't know" ...

    I mean the first teasers (and even previews showed to the journalists) shows us vulnerable people running away when they see that they can't beat the odds , with the camera barely able to keep up with the protagonist running for their lives ...

    Then the game has two supposedly-vulnerable old men who constantly gushes foward like bulls who sees nothing but red , seemingly in thier nature to keep on charging on instead of 'falling back' as well as being smart and knowing when it is the time to do so , and in the end they make a genocide that competes with the kill-counts of the protagonists from the Call of Duties ...

    What i'm asking is whether this is a contradiction or is it intentional towards the game's plot ...

    I mean you can't just show us something then gives us another dish at the end of the day , people are going to ask questions ...

    And some might even start throwing chairs or start a fire ...
    Hi, i'm the one who makes Wall of Text Armadas in a unhinged regular fashion.
    If you remember me, best start taking your pills again.

  12. #12
    After reading this.......
    I really hope IO could remake Dog Days and redesign gameplay.
    NSFW level should be more about stealth survival horror(e.g. Manhunt) imo.



    Then add a new level before Kane & Lynch meet Glazer;they fond clothes but still chasing by police.
    Survival Run & Gun



    Oh, I thought "the revenge plan" in the storyboard is much better idea(and Shangsi is more badass)
    Kane & Lynch Redux , Kane & Lynch 3 - i wish all my wishes will come true !